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	<title>Comments on: Online communities in a &#8220;locked down&#8221; society</title>
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	<link>http://meredith.wolfwater.com/wordpress/2005/07/30/online-communities-in-a-locked-down-society/</link>
	<description>A librarian, writer and tech geek reflecting on the profession and the tools we use to serve our patrons</description>
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		<title>By: Meredith</title>
		<link>http://meredith.wolfwater.com/wordpress/2005/07/30/online-communities-in-a-locked-down-society/comment-page-1/#comment-20067</link>
		<dc:creator>Meredith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Aug 2005 15:42:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meredith.wolfwater.com/wordpress/index.php/?p=263#comment-20067</guid>
		<description>The community wiki would be more &quot;nuts and bolts&quot; than the wikipedia entry.  It would be designed so that someone who came to Vermont would know what the good restaurants are, which hotels are nice, who is a good mechanic for old Subarus, where you can find great cheese/wine/maple syrup, etc.  People would just add the things they like in their area (kind of like the ALA Chicago Wiki), so that it would be good for visitors, people just moving to Vermont, and old hands looking for new things to see/do/eat/etc.  The Monteplier page in Wikipedia just gives population stats, history, geography, etc.  It&#039;s a good overview.  The Vermont wiki would give you the &quot;down and dirty&quot; on each town.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The community wiki would be more &#8220;nuts and bolts&#8221; than the wikipedia entry.  It would be designed so that someone who came to Vermont would know what the good restaurants are, which hotels are nice, who is a good mechanic for old Subarus, where you can find great cheese/wine/maple syrup, etc.  People would just add the things they like in their area (kind of like the ALA Chicago Wiki), so that it would be good for visitors, people just moving to Vermont, and old hands looking for new things to see/do/eat/etc.  The Monteplier page in Wikipedia just gives population stats, history, geography, etc.  It&#8217;s a good overview.  The Vermont wiki would give you the &#8220;down and dirty&#8221; on each town.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul Pival</title>
		<link>http://meredith.wolfwater.com/wordpress/2005/07/30/online-communities-in-a-locked-down-society/comment-page-1/#comment-19482</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Pival</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Aug 2005 21:23:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meredith.wolfwater.com/wordpress/index.php/?p=263#comment-19482</guid>
		<description>Blast from the past!  Before I moved up here to Calgary I spent some time working with the &lt;a href=&quot;http://web.archive.org/web/19990423154147/www.seflin.org/index.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;SEFLIN Freenet&lt;/a&gt;, which was community-based lynx/web site maintained by a library network (SEFLIN).  It was almost *exactly* what you describe, though mediated.  Folks would sign up to be content providers and they would have to email their updates to one of the maintainers (me), and we would figure out where in the structure the updates needed to go, and via text editor would manually make the updates, and would manually update the &quot;what&#039;s new&quot; page.

It was pretty darn popular for a while there, but was eventually taken over by the web.

I&#039;m always surprised each time I remember there&#039;s a page for my city on Wikipedia.  How would yours be different from the &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montpelier%2C_Vermont&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Montpelier page&lt;/a&gt; on Wikipedia?  Or is it the connection with the library that&#039;s desired?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Blast from the past!  Before I moved up here to Calgary I spent some time working with the <a href="http://web.archive.org/web/19990423154147/www.seflin.org/index.html" rel="nofollow">SEFLIN Freenet</a>, which was community-based lynx/web site maintained by a library network (SEFLIN).  It was almost *exactly* what you describe, though mediated.  Folks would sign up to be content providers and they would have to email their updates to one of the maintainers (me), and we would figure out where in the structure the updates needed to go, and via text editor would manually make the updates, and would manually update the &#8220;what&#8217;s new&#8221; page.</p>
<p>It was pretty darn popular for a while there, but was eventually taken over by the web.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m always surprised each time I remember there&#8217;s a page for my city on Wikipedia.  How would yours be different from the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montpelier%2C_Vermont" rel="nofollow">Montpelier page</a> on Wikipedia?  Or is it the connection with the library that&#8217;s desired?</p>
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		<title>By: Ryan</title>
		<link>http://meredith.wolfwater.com/wordpress/2005/07/30/online-communities-in-a-locked-down-society/comment-page-1/#comment-19020</link>
		<dc:creator>Ryan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Aug 2005 13:01:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meredith.wolfwater.com/wordpress/index.php/?p=263#comment-19020</guid>
		<description>Bill, 

I think you make a good point.  There seems to be a mini-paradigm change in the &quot;technology access&quot; world.   The early model seemed to be that the website was an access point that is largely separate from the physical spaces -- like it&#039;s own branch.   At the same time, branch spaces seemed to want to turn the website into a promotional tool for their branch and they largely missed many online service opportunities (IMHO).

To me, this is a loss of focus for the service.   I think the new model is that technology should make what libraries do well even better.   In the public library setting, there is no doubt that an online catalog is a great way to get books.   Place your holds, and they sit on a shelf for you to pick them up.   Not exactly a self-dependent service point, nor does it really promote the use of a branch.    A great website can also make using a library computer an even more enjoyable experience too.   A virtual space can also increase the capacity of certain programs too.    Online tutorials can help students reinforce what they learned in classrooms.   And so on.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bill, </p>
<p>I think you make a good point.  There seems to be a mini-paradigm change in the &#8220;technology access&#8221; world.   The early model seemed to be that the website was an access point that is largely separate from the physical spaces &#8212; like it&#8217;s own branch.   At the same time, branch spaces seemed to want to turn the website into a promotional tool for their branch and they largely missed many online service opportunities (IMHO).</p>
<p>To me, this is a loss of focus for the service.   I think the new model is that technology should make what libraries do well even better.   In the public library setting, there is no doubt that an online catalog is a great way to get books.   Place your holds, and they sit on a shelf for you to pick them up.   Not exactly a self-dependent service point, nor does it really promote the use of a branch.    A great website can also make using a library computer an even more enjoyable experience too.   A virtual space can also increase the capacity of certain programs too.    Online tutorials can help students reinforce what they learned in classrooms.   And so on.</p>
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		<title>By: bill</title>
		<link>http://meredith.wolfwater.com/wordpress/2005/07/30/online-communities-in-a-locked-down-society/comment-page-1/#comment-18904</link>
		<dc:creator>bill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Aug 2005 21:04:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meredith.wolfwater.com/wordpress/index.php/?p=263#comment-18904</guid>
		<description>Your comment about wishing you were working at a public library sounds a lot like some thoughts I&#039;ve had: that there&#039;s an artificial separation of duties to separate academic from public libraries, when I believe academic libraries could gain from using public library, and their activities programing in particular, as their model.  

Your focus has rightfully been technology, but I feel that libraries, regardless of what they offer online, are fundamentally in need of being seen as &#039;places&#039; -- when a library pushes new technologies, it should take some effort to put a &#039;face&#039; on that technology to always tie what you do online to who you will see when you come into the library.  Academically this plays well to into establishing relationships between scholars and librarians, and building support structures for students who will grow into lifetime users.  I wish it were done more.  Publicly, you&#039;re opening the space up to everyone -- not just to an already well-supported online community.  Innovation and community building should occur on both streets -- actual and virtual -- concurrently and collaboratively.

I may just be afraid that people will want to spend all their time online without ever meeting the people behind the services, but by not having that librarian or library &#039;face&#039; -- that physcial manifestation of what a patron sees online -- don&#039;t you risk routing everything about the library toward a virtual space over supporting personnel, physcial collections, and shared physcial spaces?  Joining the two together, however, supports both practes and allows the patron to choose their preferred method of contact, with an understadning that they&#039;re still working with certain individuals who themselves become another access point.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Your comment about wishing you were working at a public library sounds a lot like some thoughts I&#8217;ve had: that there&#8217;s an artificial separation of duties to separate academic from public libraries, when I believe academic libraries could gain from using public library, and their activities programing in particular, as their model.  </p>
<p>Your focus has rightfully been technology, but I feel that libraries, regardless of what they offer online, are fundamentally in need of being seen as &#8216;places&#8217; &#8212; when a library pushes new technologies, it should take some effort to put a &#8216;face&#8217; on that technology to always tie what you do online to who you will see when you come into the library.  Academically this plays well to into establishing relationships between scholars and librarians, and building support structures for students who will grow into lifetime users.  I wish it were done more.  Publicly, you&#8217;re opening the space up to everyone &#8212; not just to an already well-supported online community.  Innovation and community building should occur on both streets &#8212; actual and virtual &#8212; concurrently and collaboratively.</p>
<p>I may just be afraid that people will want to spend all their time online without ever meeting the people behind the services, but by not having that librarian or library &#8216;face&#8217; &#8212; that physcial manifestation of what a patron sees online &#8212; don&#8217;t you risk routing everything about the library toward a virtual space over supporting personnel, physcial collections, and shared physcial spaces?  Joining the two together, however, supports both practes and allows the patron to choose their preferred method of contact, with an understadning that they&#8217;re still working with certain individuals who themselves become another access point.</p>
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		<title>By: Raymond M. Kristiansen</title>
		<link>http://meredith.wolfwater.com/wordpress/2005/07/30/online-communities-in-a-locked-down-society/comment-page-1/#comment-18847</link>
		<dc:creator>Raymond M. Kristiansen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 31 Jul 2005 14:57:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meredith.wolfwater.com/wordpress/index.php/?p=263#comment-18847</guid>
		<description>Firstly I am very happy about having found this blog (was searching for screencasting comparison sites) and I really liked this entry. 

Here in Norway, we are facing some of the same challenges. Will be very interesting to see how libraries develop here, in the US, and elsewhere. 

Best regards, 

Raymond</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Firstly I am very happy about having found this blog (was searching for screencasting comparison sites) and I really liked this entry. </p>
<p>Here in Norway, we are facing some of the same challenges. Will be very interesting to see how libraries develop here, in the US, and elsewhere. </p>
<p>Best regards, </p>
<p>Raymond</p>
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		<title>By: Joy Weese Moll</title>
		<link>http://meredith.wolfwater.com/wordpress/2005/07/30/online-communities-in-a-locked-down-society/comment-page-1/#comment-18845</link>
		<dc:creator>Joy Weese Moll</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 31 Jul 2005 13:15:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meredith.wolfwater.com/wordpress/index.php/?p=263#comment-18845</guid>
		<description>I like Ryan&#039;s idea of partnership.

In a college production, the library could partner with the student newspaper or student government.

In a community production, the college library could partner with the public library and the welcome wagon.

--Joy</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I like Ryan&#8217;s idea of partnership.</p>
<p>In a college production, the library could partner with the student newspaper or student government.</p>
<p>In a community production, the college library could partner with the public library and the welcome wagon.</p>
<p>&#8211;Joy</p>
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		<title>By: Ryan</title>
		<link>http://meredith.wolfwater.com/wordpress/2005/07/30/online-communities-in-a-locked-down-society/comment-page-1/#comment-18691</link>
		<dc:creator>Ryan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Jul 2005 20:09:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meredith.wolfwater.com/wordpress/index.php/?p=263#comment-18691</guid>
		<description>Meredith,

I think your idea is sound in principle, but I think a manager would say something like &quot;I think a wiki is an excellent option for a community resource: now back up a second and tell me what is the problem you are trying to solve here.   Is it our problem (ie. does it relate to the library&#039;s mission and goals)?  Who is your target?  What resources do you need to put this on?   Is this service sustainable in the long term?  Would some other group in the community be a better choice for this sort of thing?   Is there a partnership opportunity here?  Who would the wiki impact (positively or negatively/internally or externally) and how?  Would the board (or other governing body) buy into it?

Put all these responses with analysed data into a 30-page report and send it to me for review.  You have three months.&quot;  :)  I think the problem with any public-oriented institution is that you have to justify everything you do and account for every penny &amp; minute of staff time.   I shouldn&#039;t have said &quot;problem&quot; because this justification process is actually a good thing.  

On the top of my head, I would think this would be a good partnership activity.  As in, the library teams with a welcome wagon group or new immigrants group and offers the wiki.   In Canada, I think there are sweet little grants for this sort of thing -- except you have to fight upteen dozen other communities to do it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Meredith,</p>
<p>I think your idea is sound in principle, but I think a manager would say something like &#8220;I think a wiki is an excellent option for a community resource: now back up a second and tell me what is the problem you are trying to solve here.   Is it our problem (ie. does it relate to the library&#8217;s mission and goals)?  Who is your target?  What resources do you need to put this on?   Is this service sustainable in the long term?  Would some other group in the community be a better choice for this sort of thing?   Is there a partnership opportunity here?  Who would the wiki impact (positively or negatively/internally or externally) and how?  Would the board (or other governing body) buy into it?</p>
<p>Put all these responses with analysed data into a 30-page report and send it to me for review.  You have three months.&#8221;  <img src='http://meredith.wolfwater.com/wordpress/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />   I think the problem with any public-oriented institution is that you have to justify everything you do and account for every penny &amp; minute of staff time.   I shouldn&#8217;t have said &#8220;problem&#8221; because this justification process is actually a good thing.  </p>
<p>On the top of my head, I would think this would be a good partnership activity.  As in, the library teams with a welcome wagon group or new immigrants group and offers the wiki.   In Canada, I think there are sweet little grants for this sort of thing &#8212; except you have to fight upteen dozen other communities to do it.</p>
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		<title>By: Meredith</title>
		<link>http://meredith.wolfwater.com/wordpress/2005/07/30/online-communities-in-a-locked-down-society/comment-page-1/#comment-18671</link>
		<dc:creator>Meredith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Jul 2005 17:16:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meredith.wolfwater.com/wordpress/index.php/?p=263#comment-18671</guid>
		<description>Very true, Joy.  I know the University of Calgary has something like that, but it&#039;s not used very much (perhaps because it does not really have a specific structure or suggestion on what should be in the wiki -- I know wikis shouldn&#039;t be structured from above, but realistically, people need that structure to feel confident about posting).    I guess I&#039;m just stuck on the idea of public libraries doing it because I&#039;d love to see something like that when I move to VT next week.  Probably, Adam and I will just end up creating one ourselves.   Just imagine moving to a new place and being able to read people&#039;s reviews of all of the different services you&#039;re going to need to set up when you get there (Internet providers, mechanics, dentists, etc.).  You&#039;re right that it would be just as useful at a college/university, and it will definitely be on my list of &quot;things I&#039;d like to do at Norwich&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very true, Joy.  I know the University of Calgary has something like that, but it&#8217;s not used very much (perhaps because it does not really have a specific structure or suggestion on what should be in the wiki &#8212; I know wikis shouldn&#8217;t be structured from above, but realistically, people need that structure to feel confident about posting).    I guess I&#8217;m just stuck on the idea of public libraries doing it because I&#8217;d love to see something like that when I move to VT next week.  Probably, Adam and I will just end up creating one ourselves.   Just imagine moving to a new place and being able to read people&#8217;s reviews of all of the different services you&#8217;re going to need to set up when you get there (Internet providers, mechanics, dentists, etc.).  You&#8217;re right that it would be just as useful at a college/university, and it will definitely be on my list of &#8220;things I&#8217;d like to do at Norwich&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Joy Weese Moll</title>
		<link>http://meredith.wolfwater.com/wordpress/2005/07/30/online-communities-in-a-locked-down-society/comment-page-1/#comment-18670</link>
		<dc:creator>Joy Weese Moll</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Jul 2005 17:02:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meredith.wolfwater.com/wordpress/index.php/?p=263#comment-18670</guid>
		<description>A college is a community, too. And, in some ways, more in need of community information since a whole crop of new people show up every year. Could a community wiki work in that environment?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A college is a community, too. And, in some ways, more in need of community information since a whole crop of new people show up every year. Could a community wiki work in that environment?</p>
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