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	<title>Comments on: Why Google (or Ask or Yahoo!) is good for reference work</title>
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	<link>http://meredith.wolfwater.com/wordpress/2006/03/29/why-google-or-ask-or-yahoo-is-good-for-reference-work/</link>
	<description>A librarian, writer and educator reflecting on the profession and the tools we use to serve our patrons</description>
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		<title>By: Meredith</title>
		<link>http://meredith.wolfwater.com/wordpress/2006/03/29/why-google-or-ask-or-yahoo-is-good-for-reference-work/comment-page-1/#comment-41372</link>
		<dc:creator>Meredith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Apr 2006 23:05:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meredith.wolfwater.com/wordpress/index.php/?p=396#comment-41372</guid>
		<description>Thanks Janice!  I completely agree with what you wrote.  I&#039;m looking forward to working with you too!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Janice!  I completely agree with what you wrote.  I&#8217;m looking forward to working with you too!</p>
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		<title>By: K.G. Schneider</title>
		<link>http://meredith.wolfwater.com/wordpress/2006/03/29/why-google-or-ask-or-yahoo-is-good-for-reference-work/comment-page-1/#comment-41340</link>
		<dc:creator>K.G. Schneider</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Apr 2006 18:03:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meredith.wolfwater.com/wordpress/index.php/?p=396#comment-41340</guid>
		<description>No, no, no, you&#039;re not long-winded... you&#039;re maximalist. ;-) Wear it and be proud! I learned that trick from Teresa, my editor at TechSource; I noticed she went through everything I wrote and broke my paragraphs into two or three chunks. What would be comfortable to read in paper is hard online. Often it&#039;s all you need to do.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No, no, no, you&#8217;re not long-winded&#8230; you&#8217;re maximalist. <img src='http://meredith.wolfwater.com/wordpress/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' />  Wear it and be proud! I learned that trick from Teresa, my editor at TechSource; I noticed she went through everything I wrote and broke my paragraphs into two or three chunks. What would be comfortable to read in paper is hard online. Often it&#8217;s all you need to do.</p>
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		<title>By: VALIS &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Search and more: MSN customised search, Ask.com, Rollyo etc</title>
		<link>http://meredith.wolfwater.com/wordpress/2006/03/29/why-google-or-ask-or-yahoo-is-good-for-reference-work/comment-page-1/#comment-41292</link>
		<dc:creator>VALIS &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Search and more: MSN customised search, Ask.com, Rollyo etc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Apr 2006 03:04:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meredith.wolfwater.com/wordpress/index.php/?p=396#comment-41292</guid>
		<description>[...] There&#8217;s also been talk about the relaunched Ask.com, with some commentators (e.g. the  Wall Street Journal) praising the new interface and claiming it has better results than Ask Jeeves did. The Slashdot crowd aren&#8217;t so impressed. I thought even the old Ask Jeeves performed better than people gave it credit for - back at school I compared it with Yahoo and Google in a small trial, and found it roughly tied Google for quality of results. I&#8217;d expected it to be a distant third. Meredith Farkas writes about times when searching the free web can be better than searching academic reference sources. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] There&#8217;s also been talk about the relaunched Ask.com, with some commentators (e.g. the  Wall Street Journal) praising the new interface and claiming it has better results than Ask Jeeves did. The Slashdot crowd aren&#8217;t so impressed. I thought even the old Ask Jeeves performed better than people gave it credit for &#8211; back at school I compared it with Yahoo and Google in a small trial, and found it roughly tied Google for quality of results. I&#8217;d expected it to be a distant third. Meredith Farkas writes about times when searching the free web can be better than searching academic reference sources. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Janice Beal</title>
		<link>http://meredith.wolfwater.com/wordpress/2006/03/29/why-google-or-ask-or-yahoo-is-good-for-reference-work/comment-page-1/#comment-41270</link>
		<dc:creator>Janice Beal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Mar 2006 19:50:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meredith.wolfwater.com/wordpress/index.php/?p=396#comment-41270</guid>
		<description>Hi, Meredith, 
Good post! I just did two freshman comp classes this morning that were all about &quot;no resource is inherently good or bad, it&#039;s all about how you use it.&quot; This is true for the Web, proprietary databases, Amazon, even People magazine.  The librarian&#039;s responsibility is to know the full range of resources that can be brought to bear on a question, and to (gently) guide the user toward the most appropriate sources.
Looking forward to working with you and learning more about Wikis and all the other cool stuff you use. Cheers.
Janice Beal
University of New England, Biddeford ME</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi, Meredith,<br />
Good post! I just did two freshman comp classes this morning that were all about &#8220;no resource is inherently good or bad, it&#8217;s all about how you use it.&#8221; This is true for the Web, proprietary databases, Amazon, even People magazine.  The librarian&#8217;s responsibility is to know the full range of resources that can be brought to bear on a question, and to (gently) guide the user toward the most appropriate sources.<br />
Looking forward to working with you and learning more about Wikis and all the other cool stuff you use. Cheers.<br />
Janice Beal<br />
University of New England, Biddeford ME</p>
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		<title>By: Paul R. Pival</title>
		<link>http://meredith.wolfwater.com/wordpress/2006/03/29/why-google-or-ask-or-yahoo-is-good-for-reference-work/comment-page-1/#comment-41201</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul R. Pival</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Mar 2006 20:37:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meredith.wolfwater.com/wordpress/index.php/?p=396#comment-41201</guid>
		<description>Meredith, don&#039;t forget the search engines that search inside the books too - Google Book Search and Amazon.com - can&#039;t tell you how many times (well ok, it was probably only 3) I&#039;ve found something using those search engines that &lt;b&gt;never&lt;/b&gt; could have been found using traditional resources.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Meredith, don&#8217;t forget the search engines that search inside the books too &#8211; Google Book Search and Amazon.com &#8211; can&#8217;t tell you how many times (well ok, it was probably only 3) I&#8217;ve found something using those search engines that <b>never</b> could have been found using traditional resources.</p>
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		<title>By: Chadwick Seagraves</title>
		<link>http://meredith.wolfwater.com/wordpress/2006/03/29/why-google-or-ask-or-yahoo-is-good-for-reference-work/comment-page-1/#comment-41195</link>
		<dc:creator>Chadwick Seagraves</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Mar 2006 17:19:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meredith.wolfwater.com/wordpress/index.php/?p=396#comment-41195</guid>
		<description>Good points from All.  I enjoyed the first keynote at CIL06 which served as a good reminder to break out of my search engine habits.  I found Clusty the Clustering Engine this last year and have found some applications for it in certain reference situations.  

As the systems librarian for our school, I put Google&#039;s toolbar on all of the library&#039;s open systems cause I love the highlighter when trying to find keywords in a long page.  I know others toolbars do the same but our IT dept. is not &quot;enlightened&quot; enough to support Firefox on campus yet.  

I use search engines to help find more keywords, phrases, and related topics when the student is researching a difficult or obscure topic or if the database&#039;s controlled vocab doesn&#039;t produce any other terms to pursue.  

Thanks for the tip on citation searching and fan sites.  I can use that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good points from All.  I enjoyed the first keynote at CIL06 which served as a good reminder to break out of my search engine habits.  I found Clusty the Clustering Engine this last year and have found some applications for it in certain reference situations.  </p>
<p>As the systems librarian for our school, I put Google&#8217;s toolbar on all of the library&#8217;s open systems cause I love the highlighter when trying to find keywords in a long page.  I know others toolbars do the same but our IT dept. is not &#8220;enlightened&#8221; enough to support Firefox on campus yet.  </p>
<p>I use search engines to help find more keywords, phrases, and related topics when the student is researching a difficult or obscure topic or if the database&#8217;s controlled vocab doesn&#8217;t produce any other terms to pursue.  </p>
<p>Thanks for the tip on citation searching and fan sites.  I can use that.</p>
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		<title>By: Meredith</title>
		<link>http://meredith.wolfwater.com/wordpress/2006/03/29/why-google-or-ask-or-yahoo-is-good-for-reference-work/comment-page-1/#comment-41182</link>
		<dc:creator>Meredith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Mar 2006 13:54:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meredith.wolfwater.com/wordpress/index.php/?p=396#comment-41182</guid>
		<description>Karen, you&#039;re totally right.  I tend to be long-winded and I think that would definitely be helped by just breaking up the giant blocks of text.  It&#039;s funny, because that&#039;s something I really dislike in other blogs, and yet I do it myself.  Thanks for making me more cognizant of it. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Karen, you&#8217;re totally right.  I tend to be long-winded and I think that would definitely be helped by just breaking up the giant blocks of text.  It&#8217;s funny, because that&#8217;s something I really dislike in other blogs, and yet I do it myself.  Thanks for making me more cognizant of it. <img src='http://meredith.wolfwater.com/wordpress/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Mike</title>
		<link>http://meredith.wolfwater.com/wordpress/2006/03/29/why-google-or-ask-or-yahoo-is-good-for-reference-work/comment-page-1/#comment-41154</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Mar 2006 02:15:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meredith.wolfwater.com/wordpress/index.php/?p=396#comment-41154</guid>
		<description>As a public librarian, I&#039;m in the same camp as Meredith. Google, or A9, or whatever, works best for our users in many, many, many cases.

And I&#039;d go further. We need to (re)design our libraries with this reality in mind. At my library, for instance, we can walk the user over to a stand-up OPAC and help them search for a book (DVD, video, etc., etc.), but we can&#039;t do the same for an online search.

Yet this is often what the situation (and user) warrants.

Just this evening, for instance, I described an information search that Google (or whatever) would have answered. But (mea culpa) I chose to answer the user&#039;s question rather than his information need.

This was due, in part, to the physical accessibility (or inaccessibility) of our Internet-connected public-access computers.

Ideally, our OPACs would enable Web browsing. On the other hand, users would have to be &quot;barred&quot; from using these WebPACs for emailing, surfing or chatting. (Otherwise they&#039;d almost never be available for the very situation we&#039;re describing.)

My post is here: http://www.bloglines.com/blog/infomikevictoria?id=31

Any ideas?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a public librarian, I&#8217;m in the same camp as Meredith. Google, or A9, or whatever, works best for our users in many, many, many cases.</p>
<p>And I&#8217;d go further. We need to (re)design our libraries with this reality in mind. At my library, for instance, we can walk the user over to a stand-up OPAC and help them search for a book (DVD, video, etc., etc.), but we can&#8217;t do the same for an online search.</p>
<p>Yet this is often what the situation (and user) warrants.</p>
<p>Just this evening, for instance, I described an information search that Google (or whatever) would have answered. But (mea culpa) I chose to answer the user&#8217;s question rather than his information need.</p>
<p>This was due, in part, to the physical accessibility (or inaccessibility) of our Internet-connected public-access computers.</p>
<p>Ideally, our OPACs would enable Web browsing. On the other hand, users would have to be &#8220;barred&#8221; from using these WebPACs for emailing, surfing or chatting. (Otherwise they&#8217;d almost never be available for the very situation we&#8217;re describing.)</p>
<p>My post is here: <a href="http://www.bloglines.com/blog/infomikevictoria?id=31" rel="nofollow">http://www.bloglines.com/blog/infomikevictoria?id=31</a></p>
<p>Any ideas?</p>
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		<title>By: Steven Cohen</title>
		<link>http://meredith.wolfwater.com/wordpress/2006/03/29/why-google-or-ask-or-yahoo-is-good-for-reference-work/comment-page-1/#comment-41145</link>
		<dc:creator>Steven Cohen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Mar 2006 21:17:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meredith.wolfwater.com/wordpress/index.php/?p=396#comment-41145</guid>
		<description>Finally, the true intent of my post comes to light.  

The problem that I have with Google is not the engine itself.  In fact, it can be too good at times.  Too good that librarians could forget that other engines may provide better results under similar circumstances.  By defaulting to Google, it becomes an instant reaction to use for any question posed.

You actually took my post a step further by actually mentioining other search engines and that&#039;s exactly what I appreciate about your post.  My beef was with &lt;b&gt;always&lt;/b&gt; using Google.  We all know (do we?) that Google, Yahoo, Ask, MSN all have pretty low cross-results (I think it&#039;s in the 30% or so). 

To NOT use other search engines, as well as subject specific directories and the fee-based databases, is actually doing our users a disservice.  In addition (and I mentioned this in my post), anyone can default to Google.  What librarians can do is go beyond what the general public can do.  Anyone can type in a few words in Google.  It&#039;s the increased where-with-all that librarians have with filtering unwanted data, focused research, and advanced knowledge that makes us special and needed behind the reference desk.

If Google can&#039;t solve every problem, we shouldn&#039;t be automatically defaulting to it.  If it could, we should.  And maybe it is because I worked in a special library for 5 years that the nature of the questions pushed me beyond Google into free and fee-based databases and that I learned from that.

Or, maybe it was the many times that attorneys asked me to &quot;Google something&quot;, and I brought them back better results from other search resources that planted a seed in my brain to not default to Google.  

Or maybe I&#039;m just jealous that 50 bazillion people use Google and far less than that use our nations libraries for research.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Finally, the true intent of my post comes to light.  </p>
<p>The problem that I have with Google is not the engine itself.  In fact, it can be too good at times.  Too good that librarians could forget that other engines may provide better results under similar circumstances.  By defaulting to Google, it becomes an instant reaction to use for any question posed.</p>
<p>You actually took my post a step further by actually mentioining other search engines and that&#8217;s exactly what I appreciate about your post.  My beef was with <b>always</b> using Google.  We all know (do we?) that Google, Yahoo, Ask, MSN all have pretty low cross-results (I think it&#8217;s in the 30% or so). </p>
<p>To NOT use other search engines, as well as subject specific directories and the fee-based databases, is actually doing our users a disservice.  In addition (and I mentioned this in my post), anyone can default to Google.  What librarians can do is go beyond what the general public can do.  Anyone can type in a few words in Google.  It&#8217;s the increased where-with-all that librarians have with filtering unwanted data, focused research, and advanced knowledge that makes us special and needed behind the reference desk.</p>
<p>If Google can&#8217;t solve every problem, we shouldn&#8217;t be automatically defaulting to it.  If it could, we should.  And maybe it is because I worked in a special library for 5 years that the nature of the questions pushed me beyond Google into free and fee-based databases and that I learned from that.</p>
<p>Or, maybe it was the many times that attorneys asked me to &#8220;Google something&#8221;, and I brought them back better results from other search resources that planted a seed in my brain to not default to Google.  </p>
<p>Or maybe I&#8217;m just jealous that 50 bazillion people use Google and far less than that use our nations libraries for research.</p>
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		<title>By: Ryan</title>
		<link>http://meredith.wolfwater.com/wordpress/2006/03/29/why-google-or-ask-or-yahoo-is-good-for-reference-work/comment-page-1/#comment-41144</link>
		<dc:creator>Ryan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Mar 2006 20:57:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meredith.wolfwater.com/wordpress/index.php/?p=396#comment-41144</guid>
		<description>An other &quot;Google Trick&quot; that is of relevance to many students is for citations.   For example, if you put the title of the article plus &quot;Works Cited&quot; you get (hopefull) proper citations in MLA -- to me this is a better strategy for the time-pressed student than offering the manual, but I always offer the caveat that the citer may not have it right! 

Stealing citations from relevant articles is also a favorite strategy of mine and one which is good for your PhD students who want &quot;everything&quot; they can find, and Google is helpful here as well.  &quot;Stolen citations&quot; are usually a good way of getting the &quot;classic&quot; works on a subject area -- moreso than the databases, which usually favor currency -- and for some reason I cannot fathom -- positivist literature.

Google rules -- it&#039;s the learning strategies that suck.    Google can only get people so far.   That&#039;s why I always advocate an information search plan.   Even for the time-pressed student, having a plan of attack is much better than slogging through hit-or-miss strategies.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>An other &#8220;Google Trick&#8221; that is of relevance to many students is for citations.   For example, if you put the title of the article plus &#8220;Works Cited&#8221; you get (hopefull) proper citations in MLA &#8212; to me this is a better strategy for the time-pressed student than offering the manual, but I always offer the caveat that the citer may not have it right! </p>
<p>Stealing citations from relevant articles is also a favorite strategy of mine and one which is good for your PhD students who want &#8220;everything&#8221; they can find, and Google is helpful here as well.  &#8220;Stolen citations&#8221; are usually a good way of getting the &#8220;classic&#8221; works on a subject area &#8212; moreso than the databases, which usually favor currency &#8212; and for some reason I cannot fathom &#8212; positivist literature.</p>
<p>Google rules &#8212; it&#8217;s the learning strategies that suck.    Google can only get people so far.   That&#8217;s why I always advocate an information search plan.   Even for the time-pressed student, having a plan of attack is much better than slogging through hit-or-miss strategies.</p>
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