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	<title>Comments on: Giving and Taking</title>
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	<link>http://meredith.wolfwater.com/wordpress/2007/06/28/giving-and-taking/</link>
	<description>A librarian, writer and tech geek reflecting on the profession and the tools we use to serve our patrons</description>
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		<title>By: mary evangeliste</title>
		<link>http://meredith.wolfwater.com/wordpress/2007/06/28/giving-and-taking/comment-page-1/#comment-181666</link>
		<dc:creator>mary evangeliste</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Jul 2007 02:44:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meredith.wolfwater.com/wordpress/index.php/2007/06/28/giving-and-taking/#comment-181666</guid>
		<description>Juilan
I want to second what Meredith said- that it is really exciting to hear from people who are just entered/entering the field. I have to tell you that some of the most brilliant, visionary people I have met in libraries have not been librarians at all. They made their way to libraries as staff people with skills in IT, public relations, human resources, educational theory etc, graphic design etc. I love the variety of people that make their way into libraries and I have no doubt that you also have amazing skills to bring to the table.
AND indeed I hope that we can persuade and support you to be an IMPORTANT part of the FUTURE of LIBRAR-NESS
WE need all the help we can get!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Juilan<br />
I want to second what Meredith said- that it is really exciting to hear from people who are just entered/entering the field. I have to tell you that some of the most brilliant, visionary people I have met in libraries have not been librarians at all. They made their way to libraries as staff people with skills in IT, public relations, human resources, educational theory etc, graphic design etc. I love the variety of people that make their way into libraries and I have no doubt that you also have amazing skills to bring to the table.<br />
AND indeed I hope that we can persuade and support you to be an IMPORTANT part of the FUTURE of LIBRAR-NESS<br />
WE need all the help we can get!</p>
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		<title>By: Meredith Farkas</title>
		<link>http://meredith.wolfwater.com/wordpress/2007/06/28/giving-and-taking/comment-page-1/#comment-181399</link>
		<dc:creator>Meredith Farkas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Jun 2007 23:17:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meredith.wolfwater.com/wordpress/index.php/2007/06/28/giving-and-taking/#comment-181399</guid>
		<description>Julian, your comment wasn&#039;t off-topic at all! In fact, I&#039;d be amazed if anyone could actually define what my post was about in any concise way. It was a very stream of consciousness post and your comment was appropriately stream of consciousness and building on what I said about having confidence in your ability to provide something useful to others in the profession. You should also have confidence in your ability to provide something useful in this forum. I really loved what you said about feeling sometimes like there&#039;s no place for you to contribute. I think we&#039;ve all felt that way at some point in our careers. I know I certainly felt that way before I started my blog. I certainly never thought anyone was going to read it! 

I&#039;m enjoying watching you step out more into the profession and become more visible. You&#039;ve gone from being a commenter I don&#039;t really know to a colleague whose friendship and insight I value. Keep up the fight!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Julian, your comment wasn&#8217;t off-topic at all! In fact, I&#8217;d be amazed if anyone could actually define what my post was about in any concise way. It was a very stream of consciousness post and your comment was appropriately stream of consciousness and building on what I said about having confidence in your ability to provide something useful to others in the profession. You should also have confidence in your ability to provide something useful in this forum. I really loved what you said about feeling sometimes like there&#8217;s no place for you to contribute. I think we&#8217;ve all felt that way at some point in our careers. I know I certainly felt that way before I started my blog. I certainly never thought anyone was going to read it! </p>
<p>I&#8217;m enjoying watching you step out more into the profession and become more visible. You&#8217;ve gone from being a commenter I don&#8217;t really know to a colleague whose friendship and insight I value. Keep up the fight!</p>
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		<title>By: Julian</title>
		<link>http://meredith.wolfwater.com/wordpress/2007/06/28/giving-and-taking/comment-page-1/#comment-181367</link>
		<dc:creator>Julian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Jun 2007 14:01:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meredith.wolfwater.com/wordpress/index.php/2007/06/28/giving-and-taking/#comment-181367</guid>
		<description>I would like to take back my entire comment. (I would have deleted it myself if that were possible.) Compared to the original post and the other comments, the random act of babbling I committed was completely off-topic, could not have possibly contributed to the discussion, and simply took up too much space. I just didn&#039;t understand the topic.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would like to take back my entire comment. (I would have deleted it myself if that were possible.) Compared to the original post and the other comments, the random act of babbling I committed was completely off-topic, could not have possibly contributed to the discussion, and simply took up too much space. I just didn&#8217;t understand the topic.</p>
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		<title>By: barbara trumpinski-roberts</title>
		<link>http://meredith.wolfwater.com/wordpress/2007/06/28/giving-and-taking/comment-page-1/#comment-181258</link>
		<dc:creator>barbara trumpinski-roberts</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Jun 2007 19:55:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meredith.wolfwater.com/wordpress/index.php/2007/06/28/giving-and-taking/#comment-181258</guid>
		<description>Mary said, &quot;Meredith thanks for doing your part to bring JOY to librar-ness!&quot; to which I add AMEN!

I was totally psyched by the idea of &quot;Five Weeks to a Social Library.&quot;  I&#039;m not so hot on Second Life because I have seen how MMORPG&#039;s can suck up someone&#039;s life, and I&#039;d rather see librarians in the flesh in reference rooms and at circulation desks than hunched in front of a computer...

However, I think one of the most important things you have done is to focus on communication between librarian and librarian, librarian and library, librarian and staff, librarian and library student.  It&#039;s so easy to get wrapped up in your own personal project that you can forget the rest of the world...

Thank you for reminding us to reach out.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mary said, &#8220;Meredith thanks for doing your part to bring JOY to librar-ness!&#8221; to which I add AMEN!</p>
<p>I was totally psyched by the idea of &#8220;Five Weeks to a Social Library.&#8221;  I&#8217;m not so hot on Second Life because I have seen how MMORPG&#8217;s can suck up someone&#8217;s life, and I&#8217;d rather see librarians in the flesh in reference rooms and at circulation desks than hunched in front of a computer&#8230;</p>
<p>However, I think one of the most important things you have done is to focus on communication between librarian and librarian, librarian and library, librarian and staff, librarian and library student.  It&#8217;s so easy to get wrapped up in your own personal project that you can forget the rest of the world&#8230;</p>
<p>Thank you for reminding us to reach out.</p>
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		<title>By: Meredith Farkas</title>
		<link>http://meredith.wolfwater.com/wordpress/2007/06/28/giving-and-taking/comment-page-1/#comment-181254</link>
		<dc:creator>Meredith Farkas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Jun 2007 19:01:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meredith.wolfwater.com/wordpress/index.php/2007/06/28/giving-and-taking/#comment-181254</guid>
		<description>Wow! Great comments on my extremely disjointed and meandering post! Mary, I completely agree with you about the self-esteem issue. So many librarians think they have nothing useful to offer other librarians and are afraid of sticking their necks out. I wonder if it&#039;s the culture of libraries that causes it or if it&#039;s just the personality of the people librarianship attracts. Either way, I hope the availability of all these ways to contribute online bring some people out of their shells. If more people contributed, I don&#039;t think we&#039;d be seeing so much conference fatigue. I have said no to more talks this year than I&#039;ve said yes to, and still, I feel completely overwhelmed. There are a lot of opportunities out there and a lot of burnt out people who would be happy to give up many of the opportunities they do get.

As far as the whole OCLS thing goes, I really hope we hear something from the folks at OCLS as to why they went to a for-pay format for their webcasts and why they chose such a high (in my opinion) price point? As Karen said, it better deliver at that price.

Scott, that is a great point about the impact one can have when speaking at a conference like ALA. I was kind of gripe-y about the whole not getting compensated thing, but I had so much fun, met so many great people, and hopefully inspired at least one person to try playing around with social software who never did before. It&#039;s a different kind of benefit, I guess. That said, I still think we should be compensated or at least not have to pay to register.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow! Great comments on my extremely disjointed and meandering post! Mary, I completely agree with you about the self-esteem issue. So many librarians think they have nothing useful to offer other librarians and are afraid of sticking their necks out. I wonder if it&#8217;s the culture of libraries that causes it or if it&#8217;s just the personality of the people librarianship attracts. Either way, I hope the availability of all these ways to contribute online bring some people out of their shells. If more people contributed, I don&#8217;t think we&#8217;d be seeing so much conference fatigue. I have said no to more talks this year than I&#8217;ve said yes to, and still, I feel completely overwhelmed. There are a lot of opportunities out there and a lot of burnt out people who would be happy to give up many of the opportunities they do get.</p>
<p>As far as the whole OCLS thing goes, I really hope we hear something from the folks at OCLS as to why they went to a for-pay format for their webcasts and why they chose such a high (in my opinion) price point? As Karen said, it better deliver at that price.</p>
<p>Scott, that is a great point about the impact one can have when speaking at a conference like ALA. I was kind of gripe-y about the whole not getting compensated thing, but I had so much fun, met so many great people, and hopefully inspired at least one person to try playing around with social software who never did before. It&#8217;s a different kind of benefit, I guess. That said, I still think we should be compensated or at least not have to pay to register.</p>
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		<title>By: mary evangeliste</title>
		<link>http://meredith.wolfwater.com/wordpress/2007/06/28/giving-and-taking/comment-page-1/#comment-181252</link>
		<dc:creator>mary evangeliste</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Jun 2007 17:47:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meredith.wolfwater.com/wordpress/index.php/2007/06/28/giving-and-taking/#comment-181252</guid>
		<description>Meredith

I, like many of the other other people commenting, do a combination of paying forward and asking for payment. In 2005 my friend and I created a marketing and design consulting firm called Fearless Future. We work with libraries, non profits and small businesses. We also do a combination of pro bono and paid work. We love to present at conferences and also give away tips on our Market the Future blog.

Strangely enough, everyone I talked with at ALA DC was experiencing the same kind of &quot;conference fatigue&quot;, a term coined by the wonderful and eccentric librarian Gwendolyn Reece, that you speak of...

I wonder if it is just not sustainable to go to this many conferences a year OR if maybe with all of our new technologies it just IS NOT NECESSARY. We are all in contact in so many new ways. Your blog was referred to me by my colleague Lisa Laskaris who is also another amazing, wonderful, brilliant librarian and I always enjoy reading it.

I agree with you for the most part that librarians are sharers but I think that another comment you said rings more true
 
&quot;We all have something to offer others in the profession. If you think you don’t, it’s more a reflection of your self-esteem than any reality. Have you ever had a good idea?&quot;

This issue of self -esteem is something that my colleagues and I are trying to address. Stayed tuned to a whole set of post called : bring more joy back to librar-ness! 
I wonder why a few people seem so fearless in our profession but for the most part we seem to suffer from low professional self esteem
I find the stuff happening in libraries today so exciting: open source, outreach to underrepresented populations, community involvement, exciting new building design just to name a few.
So I just want to say:

Meredith thanks for doing your part to bring JOY to librar-ness!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Meredith</p>
<p>I, like many of the other other people commenting, do a combination of paying forward and asking for payment. In 2005 my friend and I created a marketing and design consulting firm called Fearless Future. We work with libraries, non profits and small businesses. We also do a combination of pro bono and paid work. We love to present at conferences and also give away tips on our Market the Future blog.</p>
<p>Strangely enough, everyone I talked with at ALA DC was experiencing the same kind of &#8220;conference fatigue&#8221;, a term coined by the wonderful and eccentric librarian Gwendolyn Reece, that you speak of&#8230;</p>
<p>I wonder if it is just not sustainable to go to this many conferences a year OR if maybe with all of our new technologies it just IS NOT NECESSARY. We are all in contact in so many new ways. Your blog was referred to me by my colleague Lisa Laskaris who is also another amazing, wonderful, brilliant librarian and I always enjoy reading it.</p>
<p>I agree with you for the most part that librarians are sharers but I think that another comment you said rings more true</p>
<p>&#8220;We all have something to offer others in the profession. If you think you don’t, it’s more a reflection of your self-esteem than any reality. Have you ever had a good idea?&#8221;</p>
<p>This issue of self -esteem is something that my colleagues and I are trying to address. Stayed tuned to a whole set of post called : bring more joy back to librar-ness!<br />
I wonder why a few people seem so fearless in our profession but for the most part we seem to suffer from low professional self esteem<br />
I find the stuff happening in libraries today so exciting: open source, outreach to underrepresented populations, community involvement, exciting new building design just to name a few.<br />
So I just want to say:</p>
<p>Meredith thanks for doing your part to bring JOY to librar-ness!</p>
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		<title>By: Scott Walter</title>
		<link>http://meredith.wolfwater.com/wordpress/2007/06/28/giving-and-taking/comment-page-1/#comment-181219</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott Walter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Jun 2007 12:27:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meredith.wolfwater.com/wordpress/index.php/2007/06/28/giving-and-taking/#comment-181219</guid>
		<description>Meredith, et al. - lots of good points here, both in terms of individual choices (will I charge for this talk?) and organizational choices (should we provide this program for free?). These are questions that we all faced before the rise of technologies that made it feasible to design and deliver high-quality programming for &quot;free&quot; (like kittens) to our colleagues. As Karen says, it&#039;s about balance - individuals need to balance the demands made on their time (but, as Roy said, to be flexible about applying the rubric of compensation), and organizations need to be thoughtful about the projects they conduct that, while requiring an investment of time and technology, may serve as a (small) revenue stream in an uncertain budget environment.

I&#039;d like to get back to Meredith&#039;s points about sharing and paying it forward. She&#039;s quite right that librarians are unusual in the degree to which, as a profession, we are open to sharing and collaboration. I love that about us. In the academy, especially, it is not the norm (or, in places where it is, it often looks very different). I would place Student Affairs professionals and faculty development professionals in a similar category. Writing Center staff, too. Not universally, of course, but as a general rule (as bounded by my experience). That&#039;s one of the reasons I balk at some of the comments elsewhere in the blogosphere about individuals choosing not to present at ALA owing to the admittedly absurd strictures ALA has about compensation. That policy is wrong, and it should be changed. But, even if it is not (and I&#039;ve spoken my fair share at ALA/ACRL/AASL/SLA for free), I always remember that someone spoke for free to me when I joined this profession. Someone taught me. Someone inspired me. And, if that someone had an MLS, they did it for free.

So, thanks to all of those people, and thanks to Meredith, Michael Stephens, and others for teaching me for free now through blogs, wikis, etc. Like Roy, I try to balance my free gigs with my paid gigs, but I fashion that balance by thinking about paying it forward.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Meredith, et al. &#8211; lots of good points here, both in terms of individual choices (will I charge for this talk?) and organizational choices (should we provide this program for free?). These are questions that we all faced before the rise of technologies that made it feasible to design and deliver high-quality programming for &#8220;free&#8221; (like kittens) to our colleagues. As Karen says, it&#8217;s about balance &#8211; individuals need to balance the demands made on their time (but, as Roy said, to be flexible about applying the rubric of compensation), and organizations need to be thoughtful about the projects they conduct that, while requiring an investment of time and technology, may serve as a (small) revenue stream in an uncertain budget environment.</p>
<p>I&#8217;d like to get back to Meredith&#8217;s points about sharing and paying it forward. She&#8217;s quite right that librarians are unusual in the degree to which, as a profession, we are open to sharing and collaboration. I love that about us. In the academy, especially, it is not the norm (or, in places where it is, it often looks very different). I would place Student Affairs professionals and faculty development professionals in a similar category. Writing Center staff, too. Not universally, of course, but as a general rule (as bounded by my experience). That&#8217;s one of the reasons I balk at some of the comments elsewhere in the blogosphere about individuals choosing not to present at ALA owing to the admittedly absurd strictures ALA has about compensation. That policy is wrong, and it should be changed. But, even if it is not (and I&#8217;ve spoken my fair share at ALA/ACRL/AASL/SLA for free), I always remember that someone spoke for free to me when I joined this profession. Someone taught me. Someone inspired me. And, if that someone had an MLS, they did it for free.</p>
<p>So, thanks to all of those people, and thanks to Meredith, Michael Stephens, and others for teaching me for free now through blogs, wikis, etc. Like Roy, I try to balance my free gigs with my paid gigs, but I fashion that balance by thinking about paying it forward.</p>
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		<title>By: K.G. Schneider</title>
		<link>http://meredith.wolfwater.com/wordpress/2007/06/28/giving-and-taking/comment-page-1/#comment-181216</link>
		<dc:creator>K.G. Schneider</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Jun 2007 11:51:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meredith.wolfwater.com/wordpress/index.php/2007/06/28/giving-and-taking/#comment-181216</guid>
		<description>I agree with Roy that it&#039;s about balance.

Regarding OCLS, there were only six comments on that post, so unless there were others elsewhere it could be hard to extrapolate what the comments really mean. In my case, I&#039;m not categorically opposed to a library charging other libraries for CE, but I do believe that it bodes poorly to wrap such a talk in high jargon. For $75, they better *deliver.* Again, we weren&#039;t there at the internal meetings. Who knows what mysteries beat in the heart of your average big library system. 

Roy&#039;s comment that institutions as well as individuals need to decide on fee versus free is quite astute. Sharing among institutions is important, but institutions have to pay bills, as well. And who knows but the webmaster sitting on his magic pile of links got burned by someone riding on the coattails of his efforts. There&#039;s nothing quite like hearing your own ideas come out of someone else&#039;s mouth, without attribution, to make you a little more close-hold. That&#039;s not the way the world should work, but it happens. 

I doubt $75/head is turning a huge profit for OCLS. It could well be that $75 a head is covering the software and labor, which they are using for other things. (Because I live in Florida, I&#039;d be happy to give them a free &quot;Death to Jargon&quot; consult on the language if they let me sit in on a class to see what they&#039;re up to.) 

There have been a number of good posts about burnout over the last couple of years; Jenny Levine and I have both meditated at length on this topic. Juggling a successful career is a matter of balancing pace, compensation, and service contributions, as well as ensuring that your personal life always comes first.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with Roy that it&#8217;s about balance.</p>
<p>Regarding OCLS, there were only six comments on that post, so unless there were others elsewhere it could be hard to extrapolate what the comments really mean. In my case, I&#8217;m not categorically opposed to a library charging other libraries for CE, but I do believe that it bodes poorly to wrap such a talk in high jargon. For $75, they better *deliver.* Again, we weren&#8217;t there at the internal meetings. Who knows what mysteries beat in the heart of your average big library system. </p>
<p>Roy&#8217;s comment that institutions as well as individuals need to decide on fee versus free is quite astute. Sharing among institutions is important, but institutions have to pay bills, as well. And who knows but the webmaster sitting on his magic pile of links got burned by someone riding on the coattails of his efforts. There&#8217;s nothing quite like hearing your own ideas come out of someone else&#8217;s mouth, without attribution, to make you a little more close-hold. That&#8217;s not the way the world should work, but it happens. </p>
<p>I doubt $75/head is turning a huge profit for OCLS. It could well be that $75 a head is covering the software and labor, which they are using for other things. (Because I live in Florida, I&#8217;d be happy to give them a free &#8220;Death to Jargon&#8221; consult on the language if they let me sit in on a class to see what they&#8217;re up to.) </p>
<p>There have been a number of good posts about burnout over the last couple of years; Jenny Levine and I have both meditated at length on this topic. Juggling a successful career is a matter of balancing pace, compensation, and service contributions, as well as ensuring that your personal life always comes first.</p>
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		<title>By: Meredith Farkas</title>
		<link>http://meredith.wolfwater.com/wordpress/2007/06/28/giving-and-taking/comment-page-1/#comment-181210</link>
		<dc:creator>Meredith Farkas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Jun 2007 11:00:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meredith.wolfwater.com/wordpress/index.php/2007/06/28/giving-and-taking/#comment-181210</guid>
		<description>I also hope that this isn&#039;t a growing trend. I want to see education becoming more accessible for librarians, not less. I think it&#039;s a great idea for libraries to offer training for other libraries, but I don&#039;t want to see it be just another thing that&#039;s only for the &quot;have&quot; libraries. I don&#039;t feel that it&#039;s as wrong as you do, I do not like it one bit and wonder what impelled them to go from offering free courses to $75 (a huge leap in any field for a 90 minute Webcast).

I can imagine that if they charged $20 for these talks, they&#039;d get more people in, would benefit more people, and might even make money faster. $75 is a really high price point and I&#039;d be curious to hear from OCLS why they chose that price and why they started charging in the first place. It&#039;s always hard to judge without knowing the whole story.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I also hope that this isn&#8217;t a growing trend. I want to see education becoming more accessible for librarians, not less. I think it&#8217;s a great idea for libraries to offer training for other libraries, but I don&#8217;t want to see it be just another thing that&#8217;s only for the &#8220;have&#8221; libraries. I don&#8217;t feel that it&#8217;s as wrong as you do, I do not like it one bit and wonder what impelled them to go from offering free courses to $75 (a huge leap in any field for a 90 minute Webcast).</p>
<p>I can imagine that if they charged $20 for these talks, they&#8217;d get more people in, would benefit more people, and might even make money faster. $75 is a really high price point and I&#8217;d be curious to hear from OCLS why they chose that price and why they started charging in the first place. It&#8217;s always hard to judge without knowing the whole story.</p>
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		<title>By: Helene</title>
		<link>http://meredith.wolfwater.com/wordpress/2007/06/28/giving-and-taking/comment-page-1/#comment-181185</link>
		<dc:creator>Helene</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Jun 2007 03:20:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meredith.wolfwater.com/wordpress/index.php/2007/06/28/giving-and-taking/#comment-181185</guid>
		<description>I believe the big difference here is not the issue of being compensated for time and effort.  I also charge for speaking engagements (not at conferences I plan to attend on behalf of my library) but it&#039;s because I have to use my own vacation time for these requests and do all the prep outside of work.   In OCLS example, I don&#039;t quite see where the “request” is?  They have set up the forum under the guise of &quot;discussion and idea sharing&quot; -- not with outside speaker they have brought it, but with their own staff.

While I can understand the hardship of their situation,  many libraries are facing this.   The pure fact that libraries have collaborated and share knowledge so generously over the years is in part a huge reason of why we have prevailed.   I can understand recouping costs (but to be honest, with their online presence and investment in tutorial apps, I find it hard to believe this is the case), but $75 is hefty by my book for general knowledge sharing with peers using your own tools.    I truly hope that this is not a trend that we see grows and continues.  

Thanks for posting both sides of the coin Meredith.   As always you bring up great insights.   I think it&#039;s good to see discussions like this.    Now I know when I see a long post from you that Adam is away and traveling. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I believe the big difference here is not the issue of being compensated for time and effort.  I also charge for speaking engagements (not at conferences I plan to attend on behalf of my library) but it&#8217;s because I have to use my own vacation time for these requests and do all the prep outside of work.   In OCLS example, I don&#8217;t quite see where the “request” is?  They have set up the forum under the guise of &#8220;discussion and idea sharing&#8221; &#8212; not with outside speaker they have brought it, but with their own staff.</p>
<p>While I can understand the hardship of their situation,  many libraries are facing this.   The pure fact that libraries have collaborated and share knowledge so generously over the years is in part a huge reason of why we have prevailed.   I can understand recouping costs (but to be honest, with their online presence and investment in tutorial apps, I find it hard to believe this is the case), but $75 is hefty by my book for general knowledge sharing with peers using your own tools.    I truly hope that this is not a trend that we see grows and continues.  </p>
<p>Thanks for posting both sides of the coin Meredith.   As always you bring up great insights.   I think it&#8217;s good to see discussions like this.    Now I know when I see a long post from you that Adam is away and traveling. <img src='http://meredith.wolfwater.com/wordpress/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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