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	<title>Comments on: On success and motivation</title>
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	<link>http://meredith.wolfwater.com/wordpress/2007/08/02/on-success-and-motivation/</link>
	<description>A librarian, writer and tech geek reflecting on the profession and the tools we use to serve our patrons</description>
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		<title>By: diane</title>
		<link>http://meredith.wolfwater.com/wordpress/2007/08/02/on-success-and-motivation/comment-page-1/#comment-182397</link>
		<dc:creator>diane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Aug 2007 16:40:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meredith.wolfwater.com/wordpress/index.php/2007/08/02/on-success-and-motivation/#comment-182397</guid>
		<description>Meredith, If you haven&#039;t been tagged yet for &quot;8 Random Things&quot; consider it done. The rules are on my blog.
Have fun!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Meredith, If you haven&#8217;t been tagged yet for &#8220;8 Random Things&#8221; consider it done. The rules are on my blog.<br />
Have fun!</p>
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		<title>By: Heather</title>
		<link>http://meredith.wolfwater.com/wordpress/2007/08/02/on-success-and-motivation/comment-page-1/#comment-182395</link>
		<dc:creator>Heather</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Aug 2007 15:26:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meredith.wolfwater.com/wordpress/index.php/2007/08/02/on-success-and-motivation/#comment-182395</guid>
		<description>Hey, Meredith, took your survey, and commenting upon the other posts (yours &amp; Jennifer&#039;s) re: Emily&#039;s initial post.  What I want to know is--whatever happened to keeping things on the humble?  I do my best to do my best at work, and when people start bragging about how great I am, it annoys the snot out of me.  It annoys me because I want my library and my school computer network to run pretty much like a well-oiled machine--whether I&#039;m physically there or not.  When I hear people bragging about how I&#039;m &quot;the best,&quot; it drives me batty.  NOw I&#039;m motivated to read this Seth Godin&#039;s book and try to find holes in the philosophy.  I do so love a good argument!  Thanks for blogging!  You totally rock!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey, Meredith, took your survey, and commenting upon the other posts (yours &amp; Jennifer&#8217;s) re: Emily&#8217;s initial post.  What I want to know is&#8211;whatever happened to keeping things on the humble?  I do my best to do my best at work, and when people start bragging about how great I am, it annoys the snot out of me.  It annoys me because I want my library and my school computer network to run pretty much like a well-oiled machine&#8211;whether I&#8217;m physically there or not.  When I hear people bragging about how I&#8217;m &#8220;the best,&#8221; it drives me batty.  NOw I&#8217;m motivated to read this Seth Godin&#8217;s book and try to find holes in the philosophy.  I do so love a good argument!  Thanks for blogging!  You totally rock!</p>
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		<title>By: Pseud O. Nym</title>
		<link>http://meredith.wolfwater.com/wordpress/2007/08/02/on-success-and-motivation/comment-page-1/#comment-182387</link>
		<dc:creator>Pseud O. Nym</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Aug 2007 21:29:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meredith.wolfwater.com/wordpress/index.php/2007/08/02/on-success-and-motivation/#comment-182387</guid>
		<description>Just a quick note about your survey--you ask if we&#039;re blogging anonymously, but don&#039;t ask if anyone&#039;s blogging pseudonymously.  And there isn&#039;t a box for comments.  So I marked &quot;no&quot; to the question but wanted to point out that you might be missing some important data.  :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just a quick note about your survey&#8211;you ask if we&#8217;re blogging anonymously, but don&#8217;t ask if anyone&#8217;s blogging pseudonymously.  And there isn&#8217;t a box for comments.  So I marked &#8220;no&#8221; to the question but wanted to point out that you might be missing some important data.  <img src='http://meredith.wolfwater.com/wordpress/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Iris</title>
		<link>http://meredith.wolfwater.com/wordpress/2007/08/02/on-success-and-motivation/comment-page-1/#comment-182386</link>
		<dc:creator>Iris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Aug 2007 16:11:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meredith.wolfwater.com/wordpress/index.php/2007/08/02/on-success-and-motivation/#comment-182386</guid>
		<description>The only time I got a grade that I felt was clearly unjustified (and I was one of several in the class who had this happen), we preferred to dispute that the teacher should work for the school than that the grades should be changed.  And we brought enough evidence that he was let go!  But as points of honor, all 5 of us freshmen decided that we&#039;d keep our low grades, just to make the point that it was about the teacher and not about our grades.  I&#039;ve often wondered if that was a self-righteous attitude...

Anyway, you&#039;re post just made me remember that whole incident, and the cast of characters that populated my college career, the professors who&#039;s Bs meant so much to me, and the professors who&#039;s A+s meant so little.

But the larger point of your post really resonates with me.  I&#039;ve always considered myself un-ambitious, and people have often laughed when I tell them that I&#039;m not ambitious because (they say) why would I work so hard if I&#039;m not ambitious.  But I guess what I&#039;ve always meant is that, like you, my life goals include finding and living in a committed and loving relationship, being financially stable (which does not include summer homes, and which does include washing my ziplock bags so that I don&#039;t have to buy them all the time), and being content at work and at home.  Anything beyond that is gravy, like you said.  And really yummy gravy, but not part of what I need in order to think of myself as a success.  So I&#039;m not ambitious, but that is in no way related to my desire to work very, very hard and excel to the very best of my ability.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The only time I got a grade that I felt was clearly unjustified (and I was one of several in the class who had this happen), we preferred to dispute that the teacher should work for the school than that the grades should be changed.  And we brought enough evidence that he was let go!  But as points of honor, all 5 of us freshmen decided that we&#8217;d keep our low grades, just to make the point that it was about the teacher and not about our grades.  I&#8217;ve often wondered if that was a self-righteous attitude&#8230;</p>
<p>Anyway, you&#8217;re post just made me remember that whole incident, and the cast of characters that populated my college career, the professors who&#8217;s Bs meant so much to me, and the professors who&#8217;s A+s meant so little.</p>
<p>But the larger point of your post really resonates with me.  I&#8217;ve always considered myself un-ambitious, and people have often laughed when I tell them that I&#8217;m not ambitious because (they say) why would I work so hard if I&#8217;m not ambitious.  But I guess what I&#8217;ve always meant is that, like you, my life goals include finding and living in a committed and loving relationship, being financially stable (which does not include summer homes, and which does include washing my ziplock bags so that I don&#8217;t have to buy them all the time), and being content at work and at home.  Anything beyond that is gravy, like you said.  And really yummy gravy, but not part of what I need in order to think of myself as a success.  So I&#8217;m not ambitious, but that is in no way related to my desire to work very, very hard and excel to the very best of my ability.</p>
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		<title>By: Matthew Thomas</title>
		<link>http://meredith.wolfwater.com/wordpress/2007/08/02/on-success-and-motivation/comment-page-1/#comment-182382</link>
		<dc:creator>Matthew Thomas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Aug 2007 17:51:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meredith.wolfwater.com/wordpress/index.php/2007/08/02/on-success-and-motivation/#comment-182382</guid>
		<description>I agree almost everything said here, in your post, Meredith, and in everyone&#039;s comments so far, except for the conclusion.

Yes, it&#039;s true that not everyone can or wants to be the greatest at everything.  Yes, a lot of people who come to the ref desk simply want AN answer and not THE answer.  And yes, it&#039;s certainly better to feel better about the grade you get than to feel bad about the grade you badger someone into giving you.  But all this doesn&#039;t mean that people shouldn&#039;t aim for the top, that we shouldn&#039;t give 150% at the reference desk even when the patron only wants 15%, or that higher grades shouldn&#039;t be expected and requested when you see no reason why you shouldn&#039;t get them.

Of course it&#039;s perfectly reasonable that not everyone wants to be a &quot;SharePoint goddess&quot; (especially us guys... LOL) but saying it&#039;s ok not to be, is close to saying don&#039;t bother trying.  You may not want out of the training what the SharePoint trainer thinks that you should want out of it, but instead of starting out with &quot;I don&#039;t need to know everything about this&quot; so that you don&#039;t feel bad when you don&#039;t, perhaps we could occasionally think &quot;I could certainly be the best in the world at this&quot; and not be angry at ourselves when we&#039;re not.  This may not be the case with you or any of the commenters here, but there are too many people who don&#039;t try because they think they won&#039;t succeed completely.  Great effort and partial success is perfectly fine (and was obviously part of what you were talking about).

At the reference desk, it&#039;s a similar story.  Yes.  There are plenty of people out there who just want to squeak by with any answer at all.  But as information specialists, I believe it&#039;s our duty to TRY to make them aware that that&#039;s probably not a good idea, that the right answer (or at least a better answer) is out there, that it&#039;s not as difficult to find as they may think, and that this is exactly what we are trained (and often like) to do.

And finally, regarding the grades, two things.  One, grades shouldn&#039;t be the point.  If you don&#039;t understand why you got a specific grade (or performance review or award or credit or whatever), then you should ALWAYS find out why.  What was the point of getting the grade if not to tell you how you did and whether you need to improve or not?  Almost without fail, if I didn&#039;t get perfect on something (which was certainly quite often LOL) and it wasn&#039;t obvious what my mistakes were, I would ask what I did wrong and how I could improve.  Most of the time, I didn&#039;t even really care whether my grade was changed or not.  I just want to know the answer.

And two, grades often have to be the point, but they are very often somewhat arbitrary.  Grades are just something somebody made up to try to represent your accomplishment.  If they are going to represent you in some way (in terms of a final grade, or progressing through the academic world, or getting you a job) then why should you not try to get them up as high as you can?  There&#039;s almost always wiggle room.  Wiggle it in the direction you want it.

(Whew.  Long comment.  Now, why can&#039;t I write this much in my own blog???  LOL)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree almost everything said here, in your post, Meredith, and in everyone&#8217;s comments so far, except for the conclusion.</p>
<p>Yes, it&#8217;s true that not everyone can or wants to be the greatest at everything.  Yes, a lot of people who come to the ref desk simply want AN answer and not THE answer.  And yes, it&#8217;s certainly better to feel better about the grade you get than to feel bad about the grade you badger someone into giving you.  But all this doesn&#8217;t mean that people shouldn&#8217;t aim for the top, that we shouldn&#8217;t give 150% at the reference desk even when the patron only wants 15%, or that higher grades shouldn&#8217;t be expected and requested when you see no reason why you shouldn&#8217;t get them.</p>
<p>Of course it&#8217;s perfectly reasonable that not everyone wants to be a &#8220;SharePoint goddess&#8221; (especially us guys&#8230; LOL) but saying it&#8217;s ok not to be, is close to saying don&#8217;t bother trying.  You may not want out of the training what the SharePoint trainer thinks that you should want out of it, but instead of starting out with &#8220;I don&#8217;t need to know everything about this&#8221; so that you don&#8217;t feel bad when you don&#8217;t, perhaps we could occasionally think &#8220;I could certainly be the best in the world at this&#8221; and not be angry at ourselves when we&#8217;re not.  This may not be the case with you or any of the commenters here, but there are too many people who don&#8217;t try because they think they won&#8217;t succeed completely.  Great effort and partial success is perfectly fine (and was obviously part of what you were talking about).</p>
<p>At the reference desk, it&#8217;s a similar story.  Yes.  There are plenty of people out there who just want to squeak by with any answer at all.  But as information specialists, I believe it&#8217;s our duty to TRY to make them aware that that&#8217;s probably not a good idea, that the right answer (or at least a better answer) is out there, that it&#8217;s not as difficult to find as they may think, and that this is exactly what we are trained (and often like) to do.</p>
<p>And finally, regarding the grades, two things.  One, grades shouldn&#8217;t be the point.  If you don&#8217;t understand why you got a specific grade (or performance review or award or credit or whatever), then you should ALWAYS find out why.  What was the point of getting the grade if not to tell you how you did and whether you need to improve or not?  Almost without fail, if I didn&#8217;t get perfect on something (which was certainly quite often LOL) and it wasn&#8217;t obvious what my mistakes were, I would ask what I did wrong and how I could improve.  Most of the time, I didn&#8217;t even really care whether my grade was changed or not.  I just want to know the answer.</p>
<p>And two, grades often have to be the point, but they are very often somewhat arbitrary.  Grades are just something somebody made up to try to represent your accomplishment.  If they are going to represent you in some way (in terms of a final grade, or progressing through the academic world, or getting you a job) then why should you not try to get them up as high as you can?  There&#8217;s almost always wiggle room.  Wiggle it in the direction you want it.</p>
<p>(Whew.  Long comment.  Now, why can&#8217;t I write this much in my own blog???  LOL)</p>
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		<title>By: Meredith Farkas</title>
		<link>http://meredith.wolfwater.com/wordpress/2007/08/02/on-success-and-motivation/comment-page-1/#comment-182381</link>
		<dc:creator>Meredith Farkas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Aug 2007 17:24:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meredith.wolfwater.com/wordpress/index.php/2007/08/02/on-success-and-motivation/#comment-182381</guid>
		<description>Hi Emily. I thought it was a really interesting post, because it IS so important that we consider other people&#039;s mindsets/values/goals when we are trying to teach or motivate people. Motivating people who are change averse is a real challenge, and it&#039;s definitely not a feat I have mastered. I&#039;ve been able to sell some ideas and others have fallen flat.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Emily. I thought it was a really interesting post, because it IS so important that we consider other people&#8217;s mindsets/values/goals when we are trying to teach or motivate people. Motivating people who are change averse is a real challenge, and it&#8217;s definitely not a feat I have mastered. I&#8217;ve been able to sell some ideas and others have fallen flat.</p>
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		<title>By: Emily</title>
		<link>http://meredith.wolfwater.com/wordpress/2007/08/02/on-success-and-motivation/comment-page-1/#comment-182378</link>
		<dc:creator>Emily</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Aug 2007 13:06:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meredith.wolfwater.com/wordpress/index.php/2007/08/02/on-success-and-motivation/#comment-182378</guid>
		<description>Just for the record, I never have disputed a grade I got to try to get a higher one. I just got an A in the first place. :) That&#039;s just the sort of person I am... hard wired to just about kill myself to get everything right the first time through. What I need to remember, and what I was trying to get at, was that this is not the way that everyone is wired, and I need to remember that when I am working with people and trying to get through to them. 

For me, the first time I realized this difference in expectations between people. This student really was happy with a B and that surprised me. He was OK with something I would have fainted over. That lesson about differing values has really stuck with me. 

As for absolutes, I think I needed to express the idea of what &quot;The Best&quot; means (at least to me) better. You&#039;re absolutely right, this is a term that means something different to everyone. What sometimes surprises me is that no matter what &quot;the best&quot; can and does mean to you personally, how many people don&#039;t even consider that goal as something achievable or even desirable. As someone who shoots for it in everything I do, this is something that&#039;s hard to remember, even though I see it every day. 

It&#039;s hard to work with people who I think COULD do so so exceptionally well, but just have no desire to. A lot of the people I&#039;m trying to work with in my job only want to do the bare minimum. And that&#039;s OK. But I have to keep it in mind that it&#039;s OK sometimes to do &quot;well enough&quot;. That&#039;s hard for me. But I feel like if I can remember that and work with it I can use that understanding as a way to connect with the other people&#039;s point of view and help motivate them to reach &quot;good enough&quot; plus a little bit.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just for the record, I never have disputed a grade I got to try to get a higher one. I just got an A in the first place. <img src='http://meredith.wolfwater.com/wordpress/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  That&#8217;s just the sort of person I am&#8230; hard wired to just about kill myself to get everything right the first time through. What I need to remember, and what I was trying to get at, was that this is not the way that everyone is wired, and I need to remember that when I am working with people and trying to get through to them. </p>
<p>For me, the first time I realized this difference in expectations between people. This student really was happy with a B and that surprised me. He was OK with something I would have fainted over. That lesson about differing values has really stuck with me. </p>
<p>As for absolutes, I think I needed to express the idea of what &#8220;The Best&#8221; means (at least to me) better. You&#8217;re absolutely right, this is a term that means something different to everyone. What sometimes surprises me is that no matter what &#8220;the best&#8221; can and does mean to you personally, how many people don&#8217;t even consider that goal as something achievable or even desirable. As someone who shoots for it in everything I do, this is something that&#8217;s hard to remember, even though I see it every day. </p>
<p>It&#8217;s hard to work with people who I think COULD do so so exceptionally well, but just have no desire to. A lot of the people I&#8217;m trying to work with in my job only want to do the bare minimum. And that&#8217;s OK. But I have to keep it in mind that it&#8217;s OK sometimes to do &#8220;well enough&#8221;. That&#8217;s hard for me. But I feel like if I can remember that and work with it I can use that understanding as a way to connect with the other people&#8217;s point of view and help motivate them to reach &#8220;good enough&#8221; plus a little bit.</p>
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		<title>By: Jennifer Macaulay</title>
		<link>http://meredith.wolfwater.com/wordpress/2007/08/02/on-success-and-motivation/comment-page-1/#comment-182375</link>
		<dc:creator>Jennifer Macaulay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Aug 2007 02:40:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meredith.wolfwater.com/wordpress/index.php/2007/08/02/on-success-and-motivation/#comment-182375</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m with you on the grade thing. I have never, ever thought about arguing with a professor over a grade - even when I didn&#039;t particularly agree. More importantly, I didn&#039;t think the part about the grades strengthened Clasper&#039;s argument - there is an assummption that overachievers will argue for a higher grade and underachievers won&#039;t. 

You also make an important part about people being overachievers or underachievers in one area, but not in others. No one can give %150 in every area. We all make decisions about what is important to us. 

I agree with you about Clasper&#039;s message. Finding ways to motivate peopleis important. It is a struggle - and I haven&#039;t figured it out either.

By the way, I love Hegel. If you ever need to read him again, I volunteer to do it for you! :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m with you on the grade thing. I have never, ever thought about arguing with a professor over a grade &#8211; even when I didn&#8217;t particularly agree. More importantly, I didn&#8217;t think the part about the grades strengthened Clasper&#8217;s argument &#8211; there is an assummption that overachievers will argue for a higher grade and underachievers won&#8217;t. </p>
<p>You also make an important part about people being overachievers or underachievers in one area, but not in others. No one can give %150 in every area. We all make decisions about what is important to us. </p>
<p>I agree with you about Clasper&#8217;s message. Finding ways to motivate peopleis important. It is a struggle &#8211; and I haven&#8217;t figured it out either.</p>
<p>By the way, I love Hegel. If you ever need to read him again, I volunteer to do it for you! <img src='http://meredith.wolfwater.com/wordpress/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Ralph</title>
		<link>http://meredith.wolfwater.com/wordpress/2007/08/02/on-success-and-motivation/comment-page-1/#comment-182374</link>
		<dc:creator>Ralph</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Aug 2007 02:04:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meredith.wolfwater.com/wordpress/index.php/2007/08/02/on-success-and-motivation/#comment-182374</guid>
		<description>I agree with the no absolute theory. Robert Kiyosaki who wrote the book &quot;Rich Dad, Poor Dad&quot; said that the only place where he felt stupid was in school.  I&#039;m a big believer in education but it is true that there are other ways to succeed along with getting a degree.  Solid Meredith.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with the no absolute theory. Robert Kiyosaki who wrote the book &#8220;Rich Dad, Poor Dad&#8221; said that the only place where he felt stupid was in school.  I&#8217;m a big believer in education but it is true that there are other ways to succeed along with getting a degree.  Solid Meredith.</p>
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		<title>By: Meredith Farkas</title>
		<link>http://meredith.wolfwater.com/wordpress/2007/08/02/on-success-and-motivation/comment-page-1/#comment-182373</link>
		<dc:creator>Meredith Farkas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Aug 2007 01:55:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meredith.wolfwater.com/wordpress/index.php/2007/08/02/on-success-and-motivation/#comment-182373</guid>
		<description>Hey Alisia! Nice to &quot;see&quot; you again! :)

Oh yeah, I was definitely pretty full of myself at 18 (like most 18 year olds) and being at Wesleyan taught me a lot about humility and how much I still had to learn. :)

You are so right about the tension between giving students the &quot;perfect&quot; answer and giving them what they want. And I don&#039;t think there&#039;s a right answer to that either. Sometimes the student needs education, sometimes they need a quick answer, and always, it depends on the individual situation. I think the best thing we can do is really listen to each individual patron and find a balance between what they want and what they need, between perfection and getting them where they want to be quickly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Alisia! Nice to &#8220;see&#8221; you again! <img src='http://meredith.wolfwater.com/wordpress/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Oh yeah, I was definitely pretty full of myself at 18 (like most 18 year olds) and being at Wesleyan taught me a lot about humility and how much I still had to learn. <img src='http://meredith.wolfwater.com/wordpress/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>You are so right about the tension between giving students the &#8220;perfect&#8221; answer and giving them what they want. And I don&#8217;t think there&#8217;s a right answer to that either. Sometimes the student needs education, sometimes they need a quick answer, and always, it depends on the individual situation. I think the best thing we can do is really listen to each individual patron and find a balance between what they want and what they need, between perfection and getting them where they want to be quickly.</p>
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