Comments on: A rant about men (like Clay Shirky)

By: On behalf of hard-working, intelligent, accomplished women who are passed over for promotions by clueless bosses who favor flashy, self-promoting men with “vision” (often paired with incompetence) rather than practical know-how and years of proven abi

Tue, 15 Feb 2011 23:24:36 +0000

[...] Farkas partly agrees and partly pushes back against Shirky. Like Amy above (and, I think, rightly) she puts the responsibility for changing [...]

By: Mary Ellen

Mary Ellen — Tue, 16 Feb 2010 17:35:15 +0000

In relation to your discussion, you might like this blog post that I happened to read yesterday.

Why we love Narcissists (At First) [from Psyblog] http://www.spring.org.uk/2010/02/why-we-loves-narcissists-at-first.php

By: LisaM

LisaM — Fri, 12 Feb 2010 20:10:01 +0000

Thanks, Meredith, this puts everything I believe about success — and would like to see in the world — into words. Very inspiring for a not-yet-professional librarian.

By: Matthew 2.0

Matthew 2.0 — Tue, 26 Jan 2010 21:30:05 +0000

The one thing I would criticize Clay for is for constantly using the phrase “arrogant self-aggrandizing jerks” or similar. It’s obvious why he’s doing it: to minimize the perception that he’s insulting women (which he may be doing anyway). If you call men jerks, and criticize women for not being jerks, perhaps he thinks it will soften the blow?

But I think his primary point is that men lie and brag to get ahead and women don’t (as often). I don’t know whether that’s true or not although it seems supported by a whole bunch of anecdotal evidence.

It’s always dangerous to generalize (self-predicating statement there). I’m a guy and I have a hard time bragging about myself, lying or not. I’ve done ok, but sometimes I think that if I just put myself out there more, I’d do better. It’s not a universal gender thing, but it’s close.

By: Lorcan D

Lorcan D — Tue, 26 Jan 2010 18:12:40 +0000

You’ve prob seen the response of Tom Coates, who also twittered about it a bit.

http://www.plasticbag.org/archives/2010/01/should_we_encourage_s/

By: Jonathan Rochkind

Jonathan Rochkind — Tue, 26 Jan 2010 17:34:41 +0000

I’ve kind of thought Shirky was a self-aggrandizing narcissitic jerk for a while, but I guess if he’s publicly _encouraging_ people to be such, then I can say so in public, since apparently he MEANS to be and is proud of it.

[ As a side note, when did a word for a generally unneccesary feminine hygeine practice become so popular as a synonym for 'asshole'? Sometime fairly recently I've heard the kids start using 'douche' much more.]

By: Lola

Lola — Tue, 26 Jan 2010 16:03:27 +0000

To be honest I do think being a self promoting narcissists works in librarianship. If only because so few of us are willing to take on the supervisory and management positions that are being vacated. I’ve seen librarians with 1 year of mediocre to good entry level professional experience receive department head positions in nice locations. Librarians that are great on paper, do ok during interviews but actually have horrible communication styles and annoy their coworkers.

By: uberVU - social comments

uberVU - social comments — Tue, 26 Jan 2010 05:38:32 +0000

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By: Andy Burkhardt

Andy Burkhardt — Tue, 26 Jan 2010 02:13:24 +0000

Also, self aggrandizing jerks and self-promoting narcissists aren’t going to be people that someone would want to pay attention to for very long. Your comparison to Wall Street was a good one. People who are thinking only about themselves might be successful for a while, but it doesn’t last for ever.

This reminds me of two quotes. The first is when Jimmy Durante said: “Be nice to people on your way up because you meet them on your way down.” Success is fleeting. Nothing last forever. The second quote was by Conan O’Brien on his final Tonight Show when he quite seriously said: “Nobody in life gets exactly what they thought they were going to get. But if you work really hard and you’re kind, amazing things will happen.” I think Coco has some solid advice there.