Yes, it’s true… I am a woman. I’m also a librarian. In the world of librarianship, I don’t think about the fact that I’m a woman any more than I think about the fact that I’m Spanish-Ukrainian, Jewish, etc. I don’t feel like it should factor into my work or how people view my work. I just don’t think that way. I’m a feminist in that I believe men and women should be treated equally at work; given equal pay and equal opportunities. I don’t obsess over gender representation in everything so long as women were given equal opportunities to make it. I just really don’t think about gender that much with respect to my professional life, because I labor under the assumption that I am going to be given the same consideration as any other librarian; male or female. Frankly, I just realized that with my covering the exhibitors at the ALA Conferences, I am one of the few women covering vendor stuff for a major trade publication. But it didn’t occur to me at all until other things got me thinking about gender.
The first thing that got me thinking about it was a comment on my post regarding my realization about my lack of upward mobility at my place of work. I know that Anonymous New Parent was trying to raise my spirits, and for that, I’m appreciative. However, I was kind of surprised by the logic of the comment.
I myself am about your age, and now that I am a recent parent, my priorities in life have changed almost overnight. I was extremely ambitious and pretty career driven… however, now with a new baby, I am less worried about having a career where I can advance, and am more concerned about having a job with flexibility, so I can take the time with my family and baby that I need. You never know what life holds in store for you, and your idea of what is important in a career path may change overnight once you start a family and see the smile of your newborn baby. At any rate, I wish you the best, whatever the future holds for you! Please know that we are all rooting for you!
My first thought was how does s/he know I’m going to have children? I’m not pregnant. I’ve never written a blog post about having children. I don’t see any reason for people to assume that I am (or am not) going to have children — unless someone is watching my personal conversations with my husband. I completely agree that having a child is life-altering and you never know how you will respond to that change until it happens. I know career ambitious women who decided to stay home, and others who couldn’t wait until their maternity leave was over so they could get back to work. But the idea that I should feel better about my career because having a baby will make me less focused on my career seems to be relying on a few too many assumptions. And would anyone have said that to a man? I can’t even imagine that. And what if my Director saw it that way (though I don’t think she does)? Well, I don’t want her to have that job because once she has children she won’t be as career-focused. Isn’t that the logic that kept women from making partner in law firms and director in libraries? Women can’t be in management/responsible positions because when they have kids, they’re not going to be focused on the job anymore. I know Anonymous New Parent probably didn’t mean it that way, but if I shouldn’t worry so much about my career under the assumption that having kids will change my focus, why should anyone bother giving me (or any other woman of child-bearing age) a challenging, demanding and critical-to-the-functioning-of-the-organization job?
The second thing that got me thinking about gender was Penelope Trunk’s post about her getting fired from her column at Yahoo! Finance. I must admit that I often disagree with Penelope’s career advice, though some of her blog posts have left me nodding my head vigorously in agreement. Her writings about career, if nothing else, often shed a new light on things and get people thinking.
So the stated reason behind Penelope’s firing was that “financial content gets a higher CPM (advertising rate) than career content.” I would buy that. In spite of the fact that hers is a high-traffic column, I can’t imagine that Penelope’s audience would click on the same sorts of ads than many of the other Yahoo! Finance columnists’ audiences would. They should probably look for another place for her within the Yahoo! empire (since she does get a ton of traffic), but instead, they canned her.
So, here’s what transpired next (according to Penelope — obviously, this is just her take on the situation):
I asked if there’s another place I can write at Yahoo. This tactic is straight out of the book: Use your last moments to network, even if you are getting fired.
Here’s what my boss’s boss’s boss said: “You should write for Lifestyles*. That is more women oriented.”
Immediately I was reminded of when my column was cancelled at Business 2.0 magazine. After I had recently announced that I was pregnant and said I did not plan to take any time off from writing the column.
My editor told me, as he was firing me, “Now that you’re going to be a mom you should try writing someplace like Working Mother.”
Wow! Since I wasn’t at either of those exchanges, I can’t say whether all this happened like that not, but it wouldn’t shock me if it were true. Assumptions are made like that all the time. Well, she’s a woman with kids, she can write about being a working mother (as if she can’t write about other things she does in her professional life). When a man has a family, people don’t assume that he should write about being a working parent. For some reason, it is easier to think of a man’s personal life as being separate from his professional life than it is to think of a woman’s personal life as being separate from her professional life. Amazingly, yes, a woman can keep her personal and professional lives separate. A woman can do well in her profession with children. One commenter mentioned that the exchange reminded him of an episode of The Office where Michael Scott picked Stanley (a black man) for his company basketball team as “the secret weapon.” Of course, Stanley was one of the most un-athletic people in the world, but because he was black, Michael assumed that he must be good at basketball. A caricature, certainly, but subtle assumptions are made like that every day. I was once asked to do something at a job specifically because of my Spanish heritage (not because I speak Spanish, which I barely can, but because I am Spanish). Being Spanish is not a skill. It would be like someone saying “Meredith should handle the money because she’s a Jew.” Similarly, being a woman is neither a skill nor a handicap. Yes, there are women who can’t separate their personal and professional lives (men too). But there are plenty who can and they deserve to be treated the same as their male colleagues at work.
I am very lucky in that I don’t feel like I’ve ever been discriminated against because of my gender in terms of getting opportunities (whether I have been or not may be another story… I don’t know). I have a job where I do lots of techie stuff. I get asked to speak at lots of conferences. I was given a column in American Libraries writing about technologies. I wrote a book on technologies. I don’t feel like I have been given these opportunities because I am a woman or in spite of the fact that I’m a woman. I was given these opportunities because I’m good at what I do. And that’s all I want; a fair shake. If I found out that Leonard Kniffel wanted me to cover the exhibits because I was a woman, I wouldn’t do it. Fortunately, he asked me because he was looking for someone, I couldn’t afford to go to Midwinter and he wanted me there, he knows I can write, and probably also because Andrew Pace suggested that I should do it (Andrew is my hero).
Just as I don’t want to be discriminated against based on my gender, I do have some issues with my getting opportunities because of it. It makes me feel like being a woman makes me somehow less capable than a man to do it on my own. This is probably why I didn’t comment on the Web4Lib discussion about whether or not a scholarship for women to Code4Lib should happen. I’m a big believer in creating environments (in the classroom, at work, at conferences) that’s friendly for all genders. I’m a big believer in library schools encouraging women to take techie classes, just like I love seeing grade schools working to get girls interested in science and math. I’m not against the idea of a scholarship for women, but I am uncomfortable with it (not to make last year’s recipient, Nicole Engard, feel badly for getting it since she would have gotten it no matter who was in the competition. She’s that good.). And I understand Dorothea’s point about how it is a reminder of the gender imbalance, but if anything, I feel like it makes the chasm between men and women wider by saying, yes, women are different and they need a leg-up to get to where you already are. And while I know this isn’t the message anyone wants to send, to the people whose minds you want to change, this is precisely what they see.
I really do have a lot of mixed emotions about techniques to fix gender imbalances. I have been discriminated against because of my age and my gender by vendors at conferences. I remember how surprised my physics teacher was when I (not one of the guys) was the first to successfully finish a project we were working on in class (of course I soldered by finger in the process, but I soldiered through). I remember feeling uncomfortable in some of my History classes in college that were dominated by males and felt more comfortable expressing myself in classes like Women and the American Experience. I don’t know how to fix this stuff, but I know that scholarships won’t do it. I think that making women feel like they’re differently-abled (and making men think women are differently-abled) is not going to solve any problems and may even make them worse. I think we honestly need to start from the beginning. Start in elementary school. Start in the crib. Have science summer camps for girls. Teach computer stuff as part of a regular school curriculum. Have a no-tolerance policy for things that create environments where women don’t feel comfortable. People should be shamed when they make a sexist (or racist, or homophobic, or any other type of offensive) comment; we should create an environment where people who say offensive things are always taken to task for it.
I don’t have the answers and these are just my feelings. I’m sure many people feel differently and they’re entitled to. There isn’t any one perfect or proven way to fix these gender-related problems. I just know that I want to be held to the same professional standards as any man. Women are different than men, yes. Women have different struggles partially because they give birth and lactate. But that should only make a difference in one’s professional life and opportunities if the woman chooses to let it make a difference in her professional life. It’s a choice, not a necessity. And it’s not like men don’t struggle with many of the same issues themselves.
*I tried to find this Yahoo! Lifestyle and could only find it for Yahoo! Australia. I see articles about cooking, party planning, parental controls on computers, parenting, shopping, women’s health, fashion, and horoscopes. I also saw links to a section in Yahoo! Finance Australia called Independent Woman. Independent Woman? Can you imagine having a section called Independent Man? What a concept; a woman who controls her own finances. And when I looked at one of the articles, was more startled. It was called “Why Mummy Has to Work So Hard” and was basically about how, if women make slightly less than men, they’re basically working to pay the family’s tax bill, not to benefit the family at all. “Working mothers are often not really working to support their families, but to support the government.” The basic premise is that the tax system should better support women staying home with their children. (BTW, this article was published in Forbes magazine.) Ok, so what is not wrong with this argument? First of all, the idea that the person making less money is only supporting the tax bill is flawed. Secondly, the assumption that the woman is necessarily going to make less than the man is seriously 30 years out of date. Third, the assumption that all women want to and should stay home with their children is also not necessarily true for all women. There was also a great article that stated “shopping is synonymous to women. Women wouldn’t mind being in the shopping centre the entire day, even though there’s only one purchase they have to make.” Ummm… what? What’s weird is that this content is only in the Australian version of Yahoo! Finance. What’s up Australia?
You remind me of the Annoyed Librarian. I don’t know if she’s really as good as she thinks she is, but she is very good at nagging. And that’s the role she plays.
Librarianship desperately needs the nagging right now because it needs to shape up and get with the program. But a nag makes a horrible supervisor.
She would constantly be annoyed over little things that don’t matter and would drive her supervisees bananas.
So I hope the AL can hold on to her entry-level job for a long time so she keeps nagging us via her blog, but out of management so she doesn’t destroy her unfortunate subordinates.
I thought the comment from Anonymous New Parent was odd also – sort of out of left field. It did seem like s/he was thinking that you were on the verge of having a baby. However I was scanning some parts after not reading your blog for a week or so then finding tons of stuff to read on it. also doing that now. So like you said I think s/he meant well. But I hope you don’t take that comment too seriously.
Meredith —
I agree with a lot of what you say, in theory. In reality, I can’t tell you how many of my female friends sit back (in various careers — not just librarianship) and accept raw deals at work, unfair “raises,” etc. while my male friends tend to demand more professional respect. If they don’t get their due, they move.
In a way, I feel I was lucky that I was raised by boys and in a family business environment. I learned how to make my gender work for me (e.g., I’m an excellent negotiator and vendor contact not only because I’m smart but because I flirt well — in that sense, you could say I have an unfair advantage), but also when to be tough and non-negotiable. I work hard to be liked at work and get on with my colleagues, but not at the sacrifice of my reputation or getting what I am due.
I honestly feel that, at the foundation of the problem, girls are taught to “play nice” while boys are taught to win at any cost. Somewhere between the two, the truth lies…but until then, the system won’t change unless we as women show it there is no other alternative.
P.S. Full disclosure: I left a lucrative career in public relations to become a librarian, with about a 60 percent pay cut. Why? To have a less stressful career with set hours. It was a lifestyle change decision, period. Will it benefit me if I choose to have a family down the road? Yes. Was that a reason behind my decision? No.
Meredith,
This is an extremely interesting post and set of comments. I think the lack of recognition for school (and other) librarians is not a gender issue per se; I think there’s a lot more to it than that.
I’m currently putting together a website which documents some of the things I learned in my 8 years as a school librarian (see link above).
I tried stamping my feet, complaining, throwing toys out the pram, becoming more high profile and creating genuine projects within the schools I worked in. Only the last two really worked. I think all good librarians eventually work that one out, and I think you’re certainly one of those.
Stacey’s comment is interesting:
“while my male friends tend to demand more professional respect. If they don’t get their due, they move.”
This is certianly the case with me. I grew tired of working with ‘senior’ people who had less vision than I had, and people who were in charge of schools and couldn’t see the benefits of teaching info literacy skills. Which is quite scary when you think of it.
So I left and am now working in Further/Higher education, which in some ways is more rewarding, but I do miss contact with stroppy school pupils.
It’s a shame that many dedicated professionals are working in schools and not being rewarded or acknowledged as they should. Ultimately, I kept myself interested by creating the best service I could and highlighting it appropriately which brings its own rewards.
You’ve been blogrolled on the above site; your blog is excellent.
I hope your career blossoms whichever path you take!
Meredith,
Interesting post. Being a male in basically a female dominated library I guess I don’t often think of the gender roles in the library working against women, in fact from my perspective it seems to be the opposite–males are looked at oddly in the profession. During library school I took a children’s lit class and had to go the children’s section and got looked at like I was there to kidnap children. When I’ve looked at jobs in public services it seems like I’m looked a bit oddly.
Where I work now 6 of the top 7 positions in the library are filled by women (the systems librarian is the only one thats male, but our III person is female).
You are right in that most of the systems positions that I know of seem to be filled by males, but it seems to be changing…slowly. Maybe what it will take is everyone getting together and actually talking about it instead of letting it lie. Just my two cents.
Keep up the great work on the blog
I am all for women’s equality in the business world and elsewhere, however, from a purely corporate perspective I can understand why maternity leave is bad for the bottom line. Productivity decreases while the outflow of cash (and benefits) remains constant. Shareholders don’t like this kind of thing. What management often fails to realize, however, is that people are our greatest assets, and retaining good employees should be of paramount importance. However, companies stocks also soar after they lay off 50% of their workforce in mid-December, this I can’t fathom. Like it or not we operate in a world that rises and sets on the altar of the dollar, and it seems to me that this is getting worse, not better… We’ve even found a way to privatize war on a massive scale, it’s disgusting.
Also, I’d like to point out that men in libraries share a unique place in the professional world, because men are the minority in the profession. I have not personally experienced any discrimination, nor have I seen other male colleagues be discriminated against. Maybe this is because we’re non-profit, and none of us see much to begin with, subsequently, there’s not a lot of advantage to it like there is in the corporate world? I’m not aware of any studies regarding discrimination against men in libraries but it would be interesting to see one. Sadly, we still reverberate from the effects of Dewey’s decision to use woman as cheap labor in libraries. Stereotypes, and salaries suffer the paradigm our founding father built. Much change has taken place, and much lies before us, but things are changing… Just not as quickly as we would like.
I don’t believe you are as objective as you claim.
Many of the discussions you claim wouldn’t occur with men do in fact occur frequently. They just take place in a slightly context witha a different point of reference i.e. male/father carrer aspirations. The fact that you are not involved in these discussions does not mean they don’t take place.
I also take issue with your tacit adoption of Penelope Trunks knee-jerk verison of her termination meeting. I ahve read a good number of Trunk’s (reckless) posts/articles. The observation she received, that she acknowledges was requested, appears to me to have been perhaps well-intentioned and candid. I find Trunk’s subject matter and manner of presentation definately geared for a female reader/mindset. Suggestin a different forum that might be a better fit doesn’t strike me prima facie sexist or degrading.
Stacey, I think the assumption that using charm to negotiate with someone is somehow “flirting” or using an unfair advantage seems wrong to me. We all put our best personalities on to get what we want — men and women. I think unless you’re offering someone sex, you’re not taking “unfair advantage.” It’s like saying a man who’s assertive and moves up the corporate ladder because of that is taking advantage of his male-ness.
I think you’re absolutely right about this playing nice thing. We shouldn’t feel bad when we push to get what we want. I’ve sometimes felt embarrassed when I assertively pushed for something and I realize that there’s something in me saying that’s wrong. Why?
Andrew and Woeful, thanks for bringing up the idea of biases or discrimination against males in this profession. I agree that it’s something that should be brought to light as well. Just because this is a female-dominated profession doesn’t mean that sexism doesn’t exist. The fact is, women sometimes discriminate against women as well. A woman might think that because she was focused on having a family in her early 30’s and wasn’t very focused on her career, she wouldn’t want to hire someone of that age and gender for an important position. It’s certainly not unheard of. I don’t believe men should take on all of the blame for gender issues in our society.
Observer, where exactly did I claim to be objective? I believe saying “these are just my feelings” makes it pretty clear that this isn’t an objective piece. And as to Ms. Trunk’s claims, I said since I wasn’t there I can’t say whether it’s true or not, only that I wouldn’t be shocked if it was. And it was not that I found that degrading, but that it brought up for me the subtle gender assumptions people make all the time and how insidious they can be.
Meredith – Very interesting post (and comments). I have felt sexism before but not in libraries until I went into systems. I have had people say to my face that I can’t possibly know what I’m doing because I’m female (that’s actually why I have only gone to one Code4Lib conference, Access seems to have fewer reptiles).
Even more so, is the homophobia that goes along with the sexism. The assumption is that because I like tech work (and am good at it) then I must be gay. My usual response to this sort of nonsense is, “And what if I were?” I’ve also seen this sort of thing used against men in libraries if they’re not in systems or management.
Meredith:
Indeed, you clearly stated “I don’t have the answers and these are just my feelings.” Nowhere did you represent that you were objective, and in reviewing my post I see that my words were not chosen as carefully as they should have been to convey my real point. I did not intend to sound accusatory, but seem to have achieved the exact opposite result. Mea Culpa. Generally speaking, I am in agreement with your observations and thoughts.
Boiled down, my real point was far more subtle. When it comes to gender, there is also a propensity to make assumptions about other’s assumptions. One such assumption is that, “it is easier to think of a man’s personal life as being separate from his professional life than it is to think of a woman’s personal life as being separate from her professional life.” I am male, an employer, and do not find this assertion true in the slightest. To the contrary, I find it as defining (and jealouly considered) as it is for women. However, the context is different based solely on obvious biological reasons.
Concerning Ms. Trunk, and at the risk of circuity, your statement that, “it wouldn’t shock [you] if it were true . . . [a]ssumptions are made like that all the time” is similarly based on an assumption. That is, her proferred interpretation (about her employer’s assumptions) is more probable than not. Frankly, I find the opposite to be more probable. Given the timing, content and circumstances, I find the veracity of her post (and clear implication) highly suspect, particularly because Lifestyles (which is a Yahoo outlet) does fall in-line with her writing style. In other words, it was highly probable to me that it was content rather than gender assumptions that motivated the suggestion.
Regardless, I did not miss and, in fact, agree with the majority of your thoughtful comments. However,I do believe there is merit to a “step-back approach” before making “assumptions about assumptions” with reagrd to gender issues in this country.
Meredith —
Perhaps you’re right — men can flirt too. They just don’t seem to do so as much as women, at least in the professional sphere. I can understand that somewhat as they don’t want to cross any lines into sexual harassment and the line can be fine; however, I will say that my favorite business contacts are those that are a wee flirtatious — male or female.
Happy New Year to you! Let me take this chance to say that, though I’ve been lurking over the last few months, you’ve challenged many of my thoughts about tech/Library 2.0 and for that I’m grateful. I can’t wait to read your resolutions for 2008. Cheers!
Nice post. To me, providing scholarships for women to attend the code4lib conference is just about being especially inviting and welcoming to women in the sort of environment that often isn’t (). Not about women needing ‘special help’, just a recognition that techie communities and conferences can be less than welcoming to women sometimes, and someone who wants to work to lessen this tendency in code4lib thought it would help to extend an extra welcome to women. I think they were right. I see it as not so much extra ‘help’, as an extra welcome.
Jonathan, I totally agree with you about the intent of the scholarship. I know it was done with the best intentions possible. I don’t know if that’s the message that everyone takes away from it, but I know everyone involved meant to encourage women to take part in the conference.
Hi, I am Anonymous New Parent and was honored that you chose to blog about my comment. I can definitely say that lack of sleep causes me to walk around much of life in a fog these days, so please take that into account when reading my comments! 🙂 The main point of my comment was more a commentary on my life and how my life as a career ambitious woman has changed, even though I never thought it would…. And also just a general comment that one’s life and ambitions can change overnight, for whatever reason. In response to your question, “And would anyone have said that to a man?”
My response is yes!!!! This also applies to men and the comment should not be taken to apply *only* toward women. For example, my husband’s career ambitions have also changed as a new parent. A few months after our baby was born, his place of employment stated they would like to pay 100% of the costs for him to get a master’s degree and advance into higher level management. A few years ago, I believe he would have JUMPED at this opportunity, as he wanted a master’s degree…. However, he decided not to pursue a master’s, even though he could, for free. It is a total change, practically overnight, with the birth of our baby. And he is not very excited about the possibility of management opportunities, especially if it means longer hours away from the baby. Again, this is just our experience, and everyone else’s may be different. But if someone had told me a year ago our life would be so different overnight, career goals changing so quickly for both my husband and I, I would not have believed them. And you are correct, I was definitely wishing you the best in life and trying to encourage you, while also letting you know my personal experience as a career driven (and sleep deprived!) 🙂 woman, close in age to you. Thanks again for writing about my comment… I am thrilled!
Part of me wonders if woman who have children sometimes puts themselves into the working mothers role, if inadvertly – I can’t even begin to tell you the number of bloggers, columnists and authors I have stopped reading because after they have had children, the writing starts becoming heavily about working with children, and the difficulties it presents, or how their work melds with children, etc. For whatever reason, I don’t see that trend with men.
I don’t know if the woman are doing it because they feel a pressure to do this, or what, but….
Meredith, I guess I think if someone takes the wrong message from the scholarships, then our job is to try to ‘correct’ this message. I think code4lib community members like myself or Jeremy should do everything possible to be as welcoming and inviting as possible to library tech people who aren’t white men, and I’m not inclined to let (mostly other white men) getting the wrong message get in the way of that.
For that matter, to be sure, there are plenty of existing code4lib community members who _don’t_ think it’s important to spend time or energy focusing on being inclusive towards women or minorities. I think my role (and the role of others involved in the community who agree with me) is to convince them otherwise, and/or to just act on our own regardless of what they think. I guess I think dealing with ‘people getting the wrong message’ falls into the same boat.
I’m expecting my first child in a few months. I’ve discovered that there’s definitely an expectation out there that women should abandon all ambition once they have a baby. The thing is many of us HAVE to work full-time for financial reasons. Why shouldn’t we be fullfilled by our jobs? Granted, adjustments have to be made.
I’m a mother and daycare provider working on making the jump back to libraries. As a daycare provider, I am working to demostrate how my daycare work/momwork is transferable to a library setting. Which makes me consider the idea that what we learn in our personal life is not expected to apply to our work life. It is as if we are all two people each with its own set of skills. Never will the two meet.
Poor Anonymous New Parent. She seems so enamored of parenthood that she keeps obscuring the point she’s trying to make. “You never know what life holds in store for you, and your idea of what is important in a career path may change overnight.” That’s seems to me an important reminder. All of us can look back and see things in our pasts that altered our priorities for school, home, or work. It is more difficult accept that these kinds of things will continue to happen, and our priorities will continue to evolve.