When I graduated from library school, I worried about anti-online-degree bias. I worried that people would think my degree was somehow “less than” because I’d done it fully online. I remember being asked some questions about it at one interview that made the search committee’s biases pretty clear, but the people who eventually hired me seemed to see it as an asset rather than a weakness (mind you, it was for a distance learning librarian position).
That was in 2004. I assumed that 11 years later, people had gotten the message that online courses and online degrees are not necessarily less than, and that the people who go through them can be just as (and in some cases more) qualified as students who did on-site programs. That was until I read this article by Angela Galvan from In the Library With the Lead Pipe:
Hiring Librarians has documented responses from hiring managers claiming students in online programs cannot work in teams or learn effectively, when many students choose online programs for the exact opposite reasons. As with myths about poverty which overshadow the well-established resourcefulness of poor students, online MLIS students are dismissed as asocial and not “team players”… Suggesting online programs lack rigor or cannot result in “real” learning is harmful, technophobic, and helps maintain the whiteness of academic libraries. This attitude favors applicants with the wealth and time to enroll in face to face programs, even though very little of their development as librarians occurs in lecture style, classroom settings.
After reading this, I went down the rabbit hole into the Hiring Librarians site, which interviews people who hire librarians. I think I’d seen some appalling interview on the site a while back in which an interviewee said they wouldn’t hire a woman who didn’t wear makeup. That is beyond deranged and discriminatory in my opinion. Bfut I hadn’t really delved into the site since then. So I saw comments like this:
“I am reluctant to hire online only students. There is an important dynamic missing when one does not have to interact in person with other students and the instructor. I consider those who are currently working in a library as usually a better hire.”
Are there any library schools whose alumni you would be reluctant to hire?
“If program was purely online courses.”“I feel graduates from online only schools suffer from lack of camaraderie and group study experiences. They do too much learning in a personal vacuum.”
Which library schools give candidates an edge (you prefer candidates from these schools)?
“University of Texas at Austin and other schools who do not rely entirely in online coursework.”“Prefer someone who attended graduate school in person over and online degree.”
” I will say, and it pains me to say this, but exclusively online programs don’t graduate the same caliber students as those who have at least some on-site matriculation. There’s no substitute for creating relationships in the classroom that you’ll carry with you your entire career.”
“I don’t trust completely online programs.”
“‘Most’ librarians work with people. It is odd to get a degree for that kind of job online…I believe that many folks are graduating that should not…”
I’m amazed that there is this much ignorance in our profession.
I chose to do my degree online at FSU, in spite of getting offered a nearly full-ride to the University of Maryland, for love. I was in a new relationship with a guy I was crazy about, and while I knew it was silly to give up such an offer, I followed my heart. That guy ended up becoming my husband and I shudder to think of what I’d have missed had I chosen the other path. There are all sorts of reasons people choose to do their degree online and it rarely has anything to do with being lazy. People have spouses, kids, infirm parents, jobs, financial limitations, and myriad other things that tie them to a specific place. For the straight-out-of-college student, it is easier to move for school because they usually have fewer things tying them down. I moved to Tallahassee for social work school when I was 22, and it was a great experience. But, for a degree like ours, I really don’t feel like someone will be irreparably harmed by not taking classes face-to-face. So much of what we learn is on-the-job, and I think a library school does a greater disservice to students by not requiring an internship or some sort of work experience in libraries than they do in not requiring face-to-face class attendance.
Like Angela Galvan, I also feel like by saying that you would not want to hire someone with an online degree you are expressing a bias against people who do not have the means or privilege to move to a place with a library school. That feels really wrong to me.
I’ve been teaching for San Jose State University’s online iSchool program for about 7 1/2 years. When I first started teaching in the program it was not all online and most of the students in my online classes came from California. Soon, the program became 100% online and I started teaching students from all over the country, North America, and the world. Another shift was that I found that most of my students were working in libraries and some had more experience than I did. At Portland State, our Access Services Manager was going through the program and, in my current job, our serials librarian is doing it. Both women are amazing, full-of-energy, and experienced in the field. That said, I’ve had a lot of less experienced students in my classes who knocked my socks off and have gone on to do amazing work in libraries.
I’ve been nothing less than blown away by the caliber of students graduating from San Jose State’s program. Yes, in every class I teach there are a few slackers who do the minimum amount of work to make it through the class (or less), but the majority are thoughtful and deeply engaged with what they’re learning. I require blogging in my class, so students do a lot of reflective learning and then have discussions in the blog comments around those reflections. These really become thoughtful asynchronous conversations in many cases. I also usually require group work. (I’m not sure where this assumption that online programs don’t require group work comes from. It was required in my program in the age before collaborative tools like Google Docs.) This semester, I’m requiring more group work than I ever have before (for a three-part, scaffolded project), which I really think is valuable. In our jobs, we do projects with other people with diverse skill sets and levels of motivation and have to make things work. Often a lot of our collaboration happens online, even if we work in the same building (it’s even more challenging at PCC with four campuses/libraries). It seems like a good idea to prepare students for that reality.
I’ve heard lots of negative things over the years about San Jose State’s program from people who have no experience with it. The assumption is that if it’s big, it must be bad. It must be just a diploma mill — churning out degrees willy nilly to unqualified new librarians. While I agree that library schools are churning out too many degreed students vis a vis the job market, this is an across-the-board problem not just limited to one school. I’ve been so impressed with the quality of San Jose State’s program, which is heads and shoulders above my experience with the online program at FSU (keep in mind that I got my degree 11 years ago and probably their online program isn’t as dismal as it was then). There is a considerable focus on getting students practical experience and educating them about career options beyond just working in libraries. As an instructor, I’ve been impressed with the level of training and support they offer their instructors (even lowly lecturers like me). I was allowed to dump the LMS and use blogs for my course instead. I use a hosted-by-the-iSchool WordPress Multiuser platform for the class and have been totally supported in that. My course, like all courses, was assessed by a full-time member of the faculty. We’re offered all sorts of professional development and training and, now, each person teaching for the iSchool (even part-timers like me) are required to attend or watch some professional development programming that the iSchool offers each year. The administration is deeply devoted to quality and supporting faculty in supporting students. I have been nothing but impressed and that’s why I continue to teach for them after all these years.
It’s true that it’s more difficult to develop bonds with instructors and other students through fully online programs, though it’s not impossible. I stay in touch with some of my former students and one of my best students ended up getting a job at Portland State! But I don’t have a network of friends from library school nor do I think any of my instructors from FSU remember me. By doing an online program, you also lose out on the ability to work in the library located at that library school, which I know was an important experience for many of my friends who went to schools like UW and UNC. Yes, those are all benefits of face-to-face programs, but are they worth going into substantial debt to quit one’s job and/or uproot one’s family? Probably not for most people who do not have wealth and/or privilege. Do I feel like I’ve been irreparably harmed by not having those connections and experiences? Not at all. I developed a strong network of professional friends through work, online networking, blogging, and service.
My online program was pretty crappy in 2003-2004, but I learned like crazy on the job and was able to achieve a great deal professionally over the past decade. Unlike many of my students, my experience in libraries was extremely limited — 6 months in circulation at a public library and an internship in a university archive — but I was given an opportunity by my colleagues at Norwich who didn’t see my online degree as an indictment of my potential. Whether someone graduated from an online program or a face-to-face one means nothing in the long-run. What matters is the skills and passion they bring to their work.
Image credit: Student with an Online Degree by bluefieldphotos bp, on Flickr.
Hi, Meredith. This is a great post. It’s been a long time since you and I had an electronic conversation (via email, it was that long ago — Fall of 2003), but I do remember you, although we did not have the opportunity to work together in a class. I’ve been a fan of your work for a long time, and I’m really sad to hear that your experience at the FSU iSchool was “dismal” and “crappy” in 2003-2004 (I was pregnant with my first child during that academic year, and we had some complications, so it wasn’t all that stellar for me, either, although things improved). Anyway, just like SJSU has, we’ve changed and evolved a ton since that time (as all the programs have: different technologies, more sophisticated use of technologies, a bunch of us who are PASSIONATE about pedagogy in LIS and online) and I’d relish the chance to give you a tour of our current program so that you can have a more current idea of what it’s like these days. AND I’d love to talk with you more just because I love talking with great teachers who love librarianship and teaching librarians.
I have wonderful, ongoing relationships with many former students, but I agree, it’s rare for me to forge them with students who didn’t take a class with me or work with me on projects. Anyway, it’s been a pleasure when our paths have crossed (sort of) over the years (I was a presenter at the WISE pedagogy workshop in Dallas in 2012, one of the years you won the Excellence in Online Teaching Award), and I look forward to continuing to learn from you via your blog, presentations, and publications, even if we don’t interact directly.
–Michelle
Hi Michelle! Thanks for getting in touch! I figured things had changed at the FSU iSchool since 2003-2004. I think everyone at the time was still learning how to teach online, but I had a few instructors who just put up Word document “lectures” and called it an online class. Plenty tried to be more interactive, but the technologies just didn’t encourage meaningful interaction. I did have one adjunct instructor who made us blog, and it ended up being the best class I took (which informed my own approach to teaching). I’m assuming that with all the new collaborative technologies, instructors have improved how they interact with students online and encourage peer interaction. I’d love to learn about what the program is like now!
To be fair, someone on Twitter commented that, around the same time, they had a dismal experience taking online classes at San Jose State. It’s nice that online is no longer treated like less than, but different, with different opportunities for meaningful interaction, reflection, and learning.
I am currently working on my MLIS degree through the University of Clarion. I will graduate with this degree in May 2016. I made the decision to do the program entirely online because I am working full time as well. I needed a program that would fit into my schedule. I already have a job as the librarian at Stone Child College/Rocky Boy Community Library, but I can’t image going to a interview and being penalized for having an online degree. With there being an strong emphasis in knowing all types of technology you would think that having an online degree would set you above the rest. As for lacking team skills, that isn’t an issue. I collaborate with my classmates on projects all of the time. I shared this information with my fellow classmates and friends that are taking online classes.
Thank you for your post.Online education remove lot of difficulties facing around the world. Professional resume writing service helps to write good resume.
I think you make some excellent points. I graduated from SJSU and found a lot of great students and faculty members in my time there and like anywhere else some not so great. It is interesting too me as somebody who now hires people that they focus on the online only component seemingly at the neglect of prior experience. I do see a lot of people that graduate without much if any library related work experience and that raises more questions for me than anything else. I would never not consider a candidate with a well put together application due to where they got their MLIS or their lack of work experience, but having no work experience would raise my eyebrows a lot more.
Wow. I’m really shocked to read that some people *in charge of hiring* can dismiss an entire form of learning and teaching! My students study on campus with us, but I would be horrified to think any of their future employers were making blanket judgments based on mode of study! Each applicant and each employee deserves to be assessed holistically and individually.
I have to agree with you that getting an online degree is by no means of lesser value. I earned two bachelor’s degrees physically on campus, but that was before I became a parent and had to work full time to support a family. I chose to go back to school for an MLS, but the only option was online because, well, single parent working full time to support a family. I worked my tail off. I lost sleep. I collaborated with my fellow students via email and the campus portal. I earned stellar grades. I volunteered and was allowed to practice and discuss what I learned in school with practicing librarians. I feel that I was fully prepared to enter the profession because of this. I learned the theory in school and was able to learn the practice as a volunteer. After earning my MLS 3 years ago, I’ve learned even more on the job as a full-time, professional public librarian, but that was normal right up to my last day of my former career. So, like you, I find the argument that an online degree doesn’t prepare students for the real world is invalid.
Thank for writing this. I got my MLIS, completely online, in 2012. Why? Because there is one school in my state that offered a program, and at the time had lost its accreditation (it got it back, but I wasn’t taking any chances). I think we online students do have to advocate for ourselves, but hopefully eventually it will change some minds.
I am a student at SJSU’s online program and I found this very interesting. I hope its ok that I shared it in the SJSU SLA Student group’s facebook page.
If this is a problem I will delete it.
Thanks
Of course it’s ok! My work is public, Yael, and I have no problem with it being shared anywhere.
Hi Meredith,
Please forgive me if any of my language is unusual, I am from Australia. Many LIS qualifications in Australia now are done either partly or solely online, yet I think we still suffer some of the stigma that has been suggested in your post.
I am studying my LIS degree online – the exact same course as those on-campus study (content etc). At the conclusion, I graduate with the exact same qualification as if I studied on campus. We still do group work. It might not be face-to-face, but we are then expected to use collaborative platforms such as slack.com, which I would never have even known about otherwise.
Of course I think there is still value in face-to-face learning. But the experiences I have had with developing my digital literacy skills, communicating and interacting with people a long way from my physical location and experience and the sheer discipline required to study in this mode, I believe are traits that cannot be ignored or discounted. It has also made me appreciate how important access to information is, as well as an equitable internet.
Many of these skills have come into play even 18 months into my LIS career. I have been able to act in roles within my public library service because of the experience gained during my study. Although at times it can be lonely and very much a struggle, as things can be when you are physically isolated, I don’t regret this study experience.
Thanks again for bringing this topic up and it is great to know that as an ‘online’ student I am not alone!
I also graduated from the FSU MLIS program in 2003, and I will echo Meredith’s statements about *some* of the instructors and *some* of the construction of the curriculum. That being said, I had many opportunities to develop some excellent papers, projects, and (more importantly) relationships that directly impacted my future employment.
While I know it’s more of a correlation than causation, I think it might say a bit about the overall quality FSU’s program that Meredith is where she is now, doing what she’s doing now – and the same can be said for a myriad of other FSU graduates and graduates of other online MLIS programs. The curriculum and instruction provided a foundation for the experiences and interactions that led us to our current paths.
I doubt that there are many institutions that don’t have bad seeds in either their curriculum or their instructional pool; nor do I think that all students are going to have the same experience at an institution, even with a standard curriculum. That any institution would dismiss a graduate outright because of the modality of a program is at least short-sighted. At most, it is terrifying to me that the folks who make decisions in this manner are the same who are making other administrative decisions shaping our profession and its services.
Emily O’Connor, Assistant Vice President of Academic Support, Rasmussen College
I’m currently in an online program and you can definitely tell the difference between students that have or are currently working in a library and those who are in the program because “they love reading and think book are the best thing in the world.”
Most of the people I talk to and have met in person from my program (conferences are great for networking!) are doing an online degree because they currently have a FT position in a library as a library clerk, assistant, or technician. Why would we give up a good paying job working in the field in which we are studying just to realize when we’re done with our degree we can’t get another FT position? You must have that piece of paper to move up in almost all libraries but, unfortunately, that piece of paper is expensive.
If the MLIS was more readily available in every state and at most colleges/universities maybe more people would do F2F courses (I know I would prefer F2F) but I don’t have the freedom in my everyday life to quite my job and move across country because I decided I wanted to move up in my career and that requires going to grad school.
Meredith, I attended FSU a little later than you did, started in 2009. I choose a virtual school because I wasn’t able to move to attend school. As part of my job promotion, I had two years to obtain my MLIS. I was on the Space Coast of Florida and as you know the library schools are on the west coast. Driving anywhere from 4-6 hours was not an option. I actually really loved my experience at FSU. I had two not so great classes (one was nothing but a chat room discussion for an hour each week; and the other required watching a video of him teaching a F2F class for an hour and then attending a Blackboard chat where only a specific group of students answered questions each week on a rotating schedule). Other than that, I really enjoyed how we did group work using Blackboard’s collaborative rooms (not sure if it was actually called Blackboard Collaborate back then). I was able to complete my degree in 1.5 years which was great. I went on to teach part time for a non-library school online program and wasn’t a big fan of their platform, but I was still impressed with how interactive the classes were with live virtual class sessions and discussion boards. Now I am also lecturing at San Jose and so far love the experience. Like you, my students all have different backgrounds and experience levels. I think the class discussions are part of what help to build the learning and that just isn’t really there in a F2F environment because the discussions are limited to class time only (unless they have time after class to stop in the library, coffee shop, etc; which is really hard to do as adult learners). I think the experiences really depend on the technology that is available and the platform that the library program uses. I felt like my professors knew me better in an online class than any of my 4 years in a brick and mortar school for my BA.
Nice! I’m glad to hear faculty at FSU are taking advantage of tools like Blackboard Collaborate to encourage interaction! The required whole-class text chat stuff was rough when I was there!
Hi Meredith,
Great post, great points. It is really unfortunate that some people have what I can only describe as unfounded prejudice against online programs. I went to a face-to-face program in the nineties – online options would have worked really well for me at that point but they just weren’t available then. I gave up a good unionized clerical job in a great organization in order to go to library school. If a thirtysomething did that today where I live in Western Canada they would probably never recover financially – it is just too expensive to live here – so of course the smart thing would be to keep the job and take the program part-time online. I ended up getting a job and have worked for two decades and I teach library services online now too. While I would dearly love to meet with my students face to face each week I understand why the online option is better for many of them. A lot of them have families, jobs and just need the flexibility.
One thing many people forget, at least in my experience, is that many doing online education are also working, often in libraries, so they are getting that “group expreience” in the best living lab there is. I’ve been unhappy with graduates of both schools, as we have both schools nearby but I don’t think the type of education has much to do with it. Both can produce the pure theory grads who when faced with a living reference desk, imperfect policies, and a lot of judgment calls freeze up like a deer in the headlights. And those who emerge somehow with an MLIS but cannot write a coherent report to save their lives (it seems). A lot more is who goes into libraries for what reasons and with what blinders on.
I’ve hired many librarians and paraprofessionals, and I had never heard of a bias against online degree programs before. Wow. I got my degree in the dark ages when online programs were just beginning and people were in awe over that brand new thing called the World Wide Web. I would have entered an online program if the one I investigated had been affordable (involved televisions and tapes, I think), but it worked out much better for me to attend an on-site program. Interesting post, but I’m hoping that the anti-online degree program employers are in the minority and fading quickly. On-site programs can be worse than online ones. We all know of the better and worse library schools, and that the quality of a school may change over time. My program, which allegedly was one of the better ones at the time, didn’t offer internships, which are essential these days in lieu of other library experience. Fortunately, I was working full-time in a library. As Monica and others have mentioned, online programs may be the only option for people who work full-time, have family considerations, or have no library grad school in their state. It would be interesting to check the pulse of library employers in ten years and see if the anti-online degree program bias has completely evaporated.
A decade ago, I took two of my electives online, and they were among the most valuable courses to my professional training — especially the technology-rich “Resources and Services for People with Disabilities.” Now, I’m in my 7th year of adjunct teaching for the LIS program in Indiana University’s School of Informatics and Computing, in Indianapolis, which moved online in 2011. I am proud of the technological advantage our program offers students because of its emphasis on working with and teaching others to use tech tools. Our high-caliber students are able to develop in-demand computing skills and strong relationships with each other and with other professionals because their course work requires and supports that effort. Meredith, I always ask library management students to read your 2006 post Skills for the 21st Century Librarian. They all agree that using technology in LIS education is still essential. Online education in the information sciences is cutting-edge!
For as long as you’ve been teaching at SJSU, that’s almost how long it took for me to actually attain a (part-time) position in a public library after graduating from that program. I moved from So CA to No CA in order to attend SJSU back when they were still offering hybrid classes (I attended from 2006-2008), and worked two to three jobs in order to pay for my schooling without loans, while attending class full-time. Then the classes went to fully-online. At the time, part of me was glad (more freedom of movement for job-seeking while in school), part of me felt slighted (the in-person and hybrid classes felt far more intensive and individual); since then, all of me has wished I went to UCLA instead. I’ve encountered the bias, and it’s mostly that SJSU is viewed as a factory-school, churning out degrees online to make as much money as possible. Sadly, I completely agree with this criticism. It’s telling that all students started being charged out-of-state tuition rates when the school went to fully online, luckily I was grandfathered in for the in-state rate for the remainder of my degree. The other big tell that these online schools (or, SJSU in particular) are only doing it for the money, as someone who went through that transition from the student-side: my classes went from 10-20 students to 30, 40, 50 or even 60 people in a class…so, yes, the classes are less personal, less intensive, and far less effective. Just like for-profit schools like Strayer and Univ of Phoenix must live with the bias against, them, so must diploma-mills like SJSU. If that’s how they want to play the game, then that’s what is to be expected.
I’m sorry to hear you had such a negative experience and have had such difficulties finding full-time work. I’m surprised to hear the criticism of the class sizes; I’ve never had more than 30 students in the classes I’ve taught (and it’s been mostly online), but I don’t know if that’s normal for all iSchool classes. Large class sizes for a grad school program are really problematic, especially online. It’s difficult to make authentic connections and provide meaningful feedback when you have more than 30 students.
Recent graduate of SJSU, full-time employee for a Canadian academic library. None of the universities in my area offered an MLIS program and SJSU saved me! I enjoyed my 4 1/2 part time years. It was a slog as I also worked full-time, and wanted a family life as well. If it was a “gimme”, it wouldn’t have been a slog. It was challenging, thought provoking, and highly relevant. I used so much of what I was learning in class the very next day at work. I don’t know how many times I would email/text my boss to say, “guess what I just read!!” because I knew that she would be as interested as I was and could see the value in it. And I still use so much of what I learned and continue to learn and improve my library service. Most of the SJSU profs worked very hard to connect with students and I appreciated that.
I’m proud of my degree and that work that I did in an online environment.
Thanks for pointing out that we need to be vocal and advocate for the very positive aspects of online ed.
It bothers me immensely to hear there might be any sort of bias against online degrees. I regularly serve on library search committees…and I do NOT and never have biased against online degrees versus in-person degrees. Employees can be good/bad regardless of which library school they attend or whether their degree is online/in-person. Those taking online programs usually are very organized and self-motivated. They have to be to complete the program with competing priorities in their lives. In-person programs don’t ensure someone is better at group projects or teamwork, or has better interpersonal skills. The program in and of itself is neither a plus nor a minus. Even the higher ranked programs still graduate some questionable candidates. In our job pools, what moves a candidate up or down in the pool is how well they meet the required/preferred qualifications. Whether their degree was online or not is not a consideration.
Thanks for this.
The anti-online school responses to that survey tend to generate a lot of anger and anxiety when they crop up. It’s worth pointing out though, that only about 12% of 291 respondents expressed a negative opinion, and in many cases the opinion was more like a concern or hesitancy, rather than simply being anti online school.
I’m not sure if you saw the analysis I did of the online school issue, it’s here: http://hiringlibrarians.com/2013/09/28/stats-and-graphs-biases-against-online-library-school/
Hi Meredith,
I did my degree online in Australia through Charles Sturt University because of all the reasons already mentioned by others – the face-to-face degree-level library courses in Sydney had already been closed at the time I studied.
Having said that, we had to do group work (and were introduced to platforms like Wimba classroom as a consequence), we had to post to the course forum (and many meaningful conversations were undertaken in this environment) and we had several subjects that involved chat sessions with the lecturer and all students.
I’ve never experienced bias against my degree and I wonder whether the sheer number of library graduates (which far outstrips the employment opportunities in Australia too) mean that some employers are sorting through hundreds of applicants for each job and using any “sorting mechanism” that presents itself – whether or not this is a fair or reasonable process. When will the library schools stop churning out such high numbers of graduates? There is very little chance that most of these well-educated people will ever find a job in the industry 🙁
I have been working as a lecturer at university level teaching in wholly online programs, Grad Dip, Undergraduate and Masters, for almost 15 years now. I have also completed research in this area – elearning, first year experience studies and information-seeking behaviour. I have to say I have more contact with students as an online lecturer than if they are sitting in a lecture hall listening to a 2 hour lecture once a week. Students also conduct group/team work and ongoing discussions as part of their course, both formal and informal. They use technology to communicate with each other and conduct research across the world. I must say I am slightly disturbed by this attitude in a profession that is dealing with information in multimodal formats and on a global stage. Seems we still have many diehards in the profession who perhaps need to go back to uni to update their skills and find out exactly what happens when a course is conducted wholly online. 😐 BC
Thank you for your post, Meredith. I also chose to attend library school in a fully online environment for family reasons. I was not sure where my soon-to-be spouse (we later married) and I would end up living, or when, and I needed the flexibility to continue my studies no matter where we would live. Like other respondents, I was working full-time in a library environment, and moving or finding a flex-time solution to attend in person was just too difficult with my family life.
I have been fortunate not to run into that online degree bias yet, or at least not overtly. In my current workplace as well as my immediate former environment, it has never been an issue. I do wonder, though, if it was a problem during my last job search, and if some search committees are even aware of a subtle bias against those who made choices for family ahead of career at one point in their past.
I agree with your point about how it is contributing to a lack of diversity within the profession. I would argue that it contributes to ageism and sexism as well. This is my second career (though I am still under forty). I didn’t choose to pursue librarianship until later. In my last job hunt, I was competing for positions with new librarians who are ten or fifteen years younger. Also like other respondents, I had years of valuable paraprofessional experience with significant responsibilities. Often, that kind of work isn’t given weight either! (Again, this isn’t true of my current workplace, nor where I was right before my current job.)
We do our profession a disservice when we discount online learners and those with experience before the degree. My age and years of work before earning my MLIS made me ineligible to apply for certain professional development opportunities. That is short-sighted, too.
I am very fortunate to be an online instructor now through UW-Madison’s Continuing Education program. I love the work, engaging with librarians and staff who are seeking to improve their knowledge. I learn something with every cohort and hope to keep teaching there or elsewhere. There is so much to learn from – and in – an online community.
I also graduated from FSU’s online program (8 years ago, Blackboard, group work, etc.) and I would not have hired me had I not, Day One of library school, gotten an internship in the library of a local college. I would not hire anyone who was simply a big fan of libraries but hadn’t managed at some point to actually work in one.
Amen, Wendy! No amount of education can substitute for practical, real-world experience. I’d rather have someone with a H.S. diploma who has been working in a library for the last five years (even part-time) than someone with an MLIS that “really thinks they’d like to work in a library.” It amazes me how many of my online classmates fall into the latter category.
Great insights. I graduated in 2010 with a primarily online MLIS from the University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee. I chose to take one course on campus, though that was not required. I feel my coursework was every bit as rigorous as a traditional program. In fact, the depth and breadth of online discussions greatly exceeded those limited by a 3-hour class. Students came from a wide variety of backgrounds and had a comparable variety of ambitions. It was an eye-opening experience for all of us.
Perhaps the stigma isn’t necessarily from the online component only, but from the lack of hands-on experience some online only programs offer, especially when the students are directly from undergrad.
My take on these people who think students who graduated from an online program are less qualified are expressing THEIR own inability to work independently, THEIR own lack of self-motivation, and THEIR own doubts on learning without an authority figure looking over their shoulder. Being an online student requires exceptional dedication and time management extraordinaire. I have learned so much from SJSU and have a rich experience working with classmates and organization and establishing lifelong connections with my instructors. These hiring people need to evaluate a school’s curriculum before they make these misguided remarks.
I attended the FSU online program from 2000-2002. I worked full time at a military library and the nearest library school required a two hour commute one way to get there. The online program provided me with an opportunity I would not had been able to take advantage of otherwise. I went into the program after working in libraries for over 15 years. I had hit a glass ceiling that wouldn’t allow me to move further up in the library world until I had the graduate degree. I knocked out my classes in 18 months, learned more about the field than I thought possible and took advantage of the knowledge base available to me in my classmates and professors. I found if you put a lot into the classes, you got more out of them than some of your classmates. Overall it was a fabulous experience and shortly after graduation, I was promoted from a circulation clerk to the library director. All I needed was a piece of paper to prove I had the credentials to do the job. If I had approached my entire grad school experience with that as my goal, I would not have enjoyed it nor learned as much as I did. I am looking at my FSU degree on my wall here at work and nowhere does it say my program was an online program. So why even bring it up? Should I be embarrassed for finishing an online program? Maybe going into the program with years of library experience was helpful in obtaining the job I had previously been qualified for several years to do. As a job seeker, I have not experienced any prejudice toward my online degree. I am sorry to hear that others have. But as with most things in life, any program will be only as good as what you put it.
It is such a relief to hear people actually talk openly about this. I did a month-long library project away from home and the woman I stayed with was on the Board of her affluent suburb’s library. They were hiring a director and she stated very clearly they wouldn’t consider anyone with an online degree. It scared me off applying to school for almost two years because I live in a state with no in-person programs. I was making steady progress in my 10 years of library work but realized I’d hit that no-degree ceiling. I’m halfway through my first year of school now and it’s going so great. I don’t know what my ultimate career goals are and I’m proud of my work so far in school and career, but I do sometimes get a little wacky with anxiety worrying whether I’m making a good investment.
It IS amazing. When I first was expressing my desire for library school, someone else was very anti online and opted for the traditional program at UCLA. For me, SJSU SLIS (now iSchool) was the best solution.
I graduated from college in 2008 (not the best year), and my husband, whom I married in 2009, was the only one working. At the best of times, where we live isn’t the college graduate hot spot, and it was really rough to find any kind of work. I was jobless for a year before I decided to substitute teach. I subbed for almost two years!
I flourished in the online environment. To do group work online, you have to be really organized. It’s a ton more work than in regular group projects. And almost everyone in my classes worked in a library. I started working in libraries a year into my program, but I also did a fellowship a few months into library school. I honestly don’t know anyone who didn’t have any library work experience.
The whole battle between online and in-person is crazy to me because, let’s face it, the education, no matter what format, is just one aspect of an applicant’s background. I mean, some people just have awful personalities, even with the best library school under their belt.
Pingback: Links We Love Weekly Round-Up — July 6, 2015 | Charlotte Law Blog
I graduated from library school last year. I took as many classes in person as I could, but had to take many online because that’s the only way the were offered. During my time there, the program moved to all online, and I was furious. I had concerns about having an “online degree” and personally preferred in person classes. My biggest issue was that most of the professors who were teaching online had little experience with online and were not good at it (some were even outright bad). I had one professor online with whom I took 3 classes, and anytime I talk to someone in the program I say “Take as many classes with Annette Lamb as possible.” I don’t think I did a single group project in my online classes. It honestly felt like I was just paying for a degree rather than an education. Perhaps if the professors were better at the online classes I would have been more accepting of it and would not have been as concerned, but I know that I, having gone through a somewhat online program, would likely favor someone with a degree from an in person program to one who got their degree online.
Pingback: Q: I want to be an academic librarian. Will my current job help my goal, are online degree programs viewed the same as in-person ones, and what qualifications will I need? | Library Career People
Meredith, I just read your Libraries in the Learning Management System piece (Summer 2015)–which was brilliant, BTW–I’m doing some embedded work now in our LMS and your guiding wisdom couldn’t have come at a better time! I decided to pop over to your blog to see what you’ve been up to and found this post.
I won’t launch into a tirade about how WRONG and misguided so many people’s perceptions are about online learning, but I’ll say that whether you attend a brick & mortar or attend online, your educational experience is going to be what YOU decide it will be.
I’ll admit to having read through the Hiring Librarians’ site before and saw those exact quotes you’d pulled out. It rankled me, for sure as I had just decided on pursuing my MLIS through SJSU. I have 3 small kids at home and hadn’t been in college for at least a decade so if it wasn’t for SJSU’s online program, I’d not have been able to even get my degree.
I wasn’t going to let Hiring Librarians’ get me down–if anything, those comments fueled my dedication to hone my skills even sharper, make my base of learning even wider and deeper. During my time at SJSU, I scored a position as a research assistant and project manager on a completely virtual research team working on a federally funded grant. I worked as an instructional design intern with Credo Reference (all virtual–I live in San Diego and Credo is based out in Boston) and most importantly, I got a job as a librarian months out of school. I’m in a new position now at National University–where most of our students are adult learners and most of our classes are either completely online or hybrid–and I’m using the same skills I used to collaborate, work, study, and learn at SJSU here and am all the better of a librarian for it. Finally, I made more friends at SJSU than I made going to a University on campus and have formed my own cohort of LIS then students/now professionals.
Commenting back on your piece about Libraries in the LMS and the apparent rise of online education, I could only say that LIS students studying in an online program are only going to end up picking up more skills and more experience working in virtual spaces than students who hadn’t been expected to learn how to work and learn online on TOP of learning the course materials to graduate their programs.
Finally, since this is my first time commenting on your blog, I have to say that you were one of my most favorite instructors in school and continue to inspire and teach me today as a successfully employed professional. Thank you for your contributions to our field and for helping to champion online learning and educational opportunities for students such as myself. 🙂
Thanks so much Zem (and sorry for the delayed reply — I’ve been mostly on an Internet hiatus since the end of summer term)! I appreciate your kind words about my teaching, but it’s students like you who enrich my own practice and keep me feeling optimistic about the future of our profession. You are definitely a great case study of an online student who made the very most of her experience and one for whom online learning was a perfect fit (it’s not for everyone).
And congrats on the new job!!!
Thank you for this post. I am just starting to research MLIS programs and in my state (I’m in Washington Co, OR – near you!) there are no programs. I’d have to do a 100% online program and I was wondering about this topic.
Pingback: Learning Journal Post 9: Let’s get Intersectional | Call Number Ninja